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Hubble Lithium Battery AM-2 5.5kWh


system32
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@HubbleLithium
According to the sales data the Hubble AM-2 is a 5.5kWh 51V 100Ah battery:
image.png.04604e65d1da5485b1e3704ce7dafd0a.png

image.png.7bfe2d3a4242b6b31b1aa88b0ccb312e.png


Nominal Voltage V x Rated Capacity Ah = Wh
51V x 100Ah = 5100Wh or 5.1kWh

Q1. What is the "5HR" mean in "Rated Capacity 5HR"?
A. See http://support.rollsbattery.com/en/support/solutions/articles/216766-what-is-amp-hour-capacity-
Ah is normally determined over 20 hours, unless otherwise specified.
For AM-2, 100Ah / 5hr or 20A continuous for 5 hours - which compared to Lead Acid is very good.
Lead Acid batteries suffer from "Peukert Effect".
Lithium batteries suffer much, much less - See https://battlebornbatteries.com/peukert-effect/
 

Q2. Is the Hubble Lithium AM-2 a 5.1kWh battery or a 5.5kWh battery?

Edited by system32
Clarity
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Also interested in this.

I am getting 7kWh from 100% till 20% SOC. 

One brand new battery and the other around 3 weeks old. 

The one went in last week as there was an issue ( Cell Imbalance according to Hubble Technical ) 

Would be keen to see what the answer is.

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1 hour ago, PowerUser said:

According to the guide from Hubble, you set it as 110Ah and not 100Ah battery. This would mean 5.5kW

6A760417-2B0C-485B-8BE1-26136E536C7C.png.fe5ed1f4cb061120c86d98a8679e9cfb.png
 

https://www.hubblelithium.co.za/sunsynk-hubble-setup.html

According to the SunSynk Installer Manual Section 5.10: "Battery capacity in (Ah) – For non-BMS-batteries the range allowed is 0-2000Ah, while for lithium-ion the inverter will user the capacity value of the BMS."
This is a user input value (not read from BMS)
I don't think this setting does anything if you have BMS connected battery.

If you have Solar-Assistant connected via RS232 to Hubble AM-2 Battery #1, you can get the capacity from the BMS.

Edited by system32
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2 hours ago, system32 said:

According to the SunSynk Installer Manual Section 5.10: "Battery capacity in (Ah) – For non-BMS-batteries the range allowed is 0-2000Ah, while for lithium-ion the inverter will user the capacity value of the BMS."

If you have Solar-Assistant connected via RS232 to Hubble AM-2 Battery #1, you can get the capacity from the BMS.

I know, the BMS will provide the value but the above screen indicates, it's 110Ah and not 100Ah battery.

Edited by PowerUser
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5 hours ago, MyproD said:

Also interested in this.

I am getting 7kWh from 100% till 20% SOC. 

One brand new battery and the other around 3 weeks old. 

The one went in last week as there was an issue ( Cell Imbalance according to Hubble Technical ) 

Would be keen to see what the answer is.

My monitoring shows my 4 x AM2 has dropped to ~14.5kWh.
I've logged a ticket with Hubble support.

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54 minutes ago, system32 said:

My monitoring shows my 4 x AM2 has dropped to ~14.5kWh.
I've logged a ticket with Hubble support.

I was wanting to get Hubbles but given that I am outside of SA, this becomes a consideration, in cases like yours where the item may have to be returned to Manufacturer, more so across borders. The costs become considerable. Down the road, if you can, try and get as less a number of batteries as possible, I've heard on this forum and in my research, this generally helps with less parts having to experience pairing or uneven charge and discharge issues etc.

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19 hours ago, system32 said:

My monitoring shows my 4 x AM2 has dropped to ~14.5kWh.
I've logged a ticket with Hubble support.

What monitoring do you use to measure that? I'm very curious to see. Can you please post a picture?

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5 hours ago, PowerUser said:

What monitoring do you use to measure that? I'm very curious to see. Can you please post a picture?

I use Solar-Assistant + Solar-Assistant Bull/Hubble AM RS232 cable connected to the master Hubble AM-2 battery.
https://solar-assistant.io/shop/products/hubble_am

The battery information provided is quite good, but does not provide cell data 😞
See https://solar-assistant.io/help/dashboard/battery
image.thumb.png.0d5f2fcc2d36efc5f4a0a5603fe5d295.png


I've enable MQTT on Solar-Assistant and keep 1 minute snaps of the values in a PostgreSQL database.
I use the PostgreSQL data Battery_Energy_Out kWh and SOC decrease from 19:00pm to 05:00am to determine bank capacity which matches bank Capacity above.
 

Edited by system32
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42 minutes ago, system32 said:

I use Solar-Assistant + Solar-Assistant Bull/Hubble AM RS232 cable connected to the master Hubble AM-2 battery.
https://solar-assistant.io/shop/products/hubble_am

The battery information provided is quite good, but does not provide cell data 😞
See https://solar-assistant.io/help/dashboard/battery
image.thumb.png.0d5f2fcc2d36efc5f4a0a5603fe5d295.png


I've enable MQTT on Solar-Assistant and keep 1 minute snaps of the values in a PostgreSQL database.
I use the PostgreSQL data Battery_Energy_Out kWh and SOC decrease from 19:00pm to 05:00am to determine bank capacity which matches bank Capacity above.
 

Your batteries temperature is high. No way to cool the room?

My AM2's run between 18C and 24C, and still show a SOH of 100%.

 

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On 2022/01/11 at 5:24 PM, TimCam said:

Your batteries temperature is high. No way to cool the room?

My AM2's run between 18C and 24C, and still show a SOH of 100%.

 

The batteries are in a shaded, well ventilated large basement garage.
The garage is at Johannesburg indoor temperatures.
The garage is too big to cool.
The garage is used for my motor bike & bicycle. (no car)
The temperature above is whilst charging.

image.png.14d49f71087eefd4c8cd7426493aaae1.png

image.thumb.png.baaeb359eebfba0bb3a4bbb27660c37a.png

What's your temperature whilst peak charging?

EDIT:
SA seems to report the wrong temperatures compared to RIOT.

Edited by system32
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3 hours ago, system32 said:

I use Solar-Assistant + Solar-Assistant Bull/Hubble AM RS232 cable connected to the master Hubble AM-2 battery.
https://solar-assistant.io/shop/products/hubble_am

The battery information provided is quite good, but does not provide cell data 😞
See https://solar-assistant.io/help/dashboard/battery
image.thumb.png.0d5f2fcc2d36efc5f4a0a5603fe5d295.png


I've enable MQTT on Solar-Assistant and keep 1 minute snaps of the values in a PostgreSQL database.
I use the PostgreSQL data Battery_Energy_Out kWh and SOC decrease from 19:00pm to 05:00am to determine bank capacity which matches bank Capacity above.
 

This doesn't look good. I took one battery in and they told me my SOH was at 73% but the inverter was reading it at 100%.

Long shot here but have you tried to unplug your Can cable and let the inverter charge with voltages as opposed to the inverter reading the info from the BMS?

They told me to do that to balance the cells and banks. 

Edited by MyproD
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44 minutes ago, MyproD said:

This doesn't look good. I took one battery in and they told me my SOH was at 73% but the inverter was reading it at 100%.

Long shot here but have you tried to unplug your Can cable and let the inverter charge with voltages as opposed to the inverter reading the info from the BMS?

They told me to do that to balance the cells and banks. 

The SOH, cycles, temperature, etc above is extracted from each BMS in the batteries.
The Master BMS in Pack #1 controls the charging and tells the SunSynk to stop.

I have logged a call with Hubble, they've checked via RIOT and asked me to take the batteries to the service center for checking.
Just waiting for the details.


EDIT: @MyproDIs it just a matter of pulling the CAN cable, do I need to change any of the SunSynk settings?
https://www.hubblelithium.co.za/sunsynk-hubble-setup.html

Edited by system32
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2 hours ago, system32 said:

The batteries are in a shaded, well ventilated large basement garage.
The garage is at Johannesburg indoor temperatures.
The garage is too big to cool.
The garage is used for my motor bike & bicycle. (no car)
The temperature above is whilst charging.

image.png.14d49f71087eefd4c8cd7426493aaae1.png

image.thumb.png.baaeb359eebfba0bb3a4bbb27660c37a.png

What's your temperature whilst peak charging?

Good looking install.:)

I have no remote monitoring or data logging at all. Next time its charging I'll have a look.

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15 hours ago, system32 said:

I use Solar-Assistant + Solar-Assistant Bull/Hubble AM RS232 cable connected to the master Hubble AM-2 battery.
https://solar-assistant.io/shop/products/hubble_am

The battery information provided is quite good, but does not provide cell data 😞
See https://solar-assistant.io/help/dashboard/battery
image.thumb.png.0d5f2fcc2d36efc5f4a0a5603fe5d295.png


I've enable MQTT on Solar-Assistant and keep 1 minute snaps of the values in a PostgreSQL database.
I use the PostgreSQL data Battery_Energy_Out kWh and SOC decrease from 19:00pm to 05:00am to determine bank capacity which matches bank Capacity above.
 

That is shocking!

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On 2022/01/10 at 4:15 PM, system32 said:

My monitoring shows my 4 x AM2 has dropped to ~14.5kWh.
I've logged a ticket with Hubble support.

My goodness me, that's hectic capacity fade!!  And they are under 100 cycles!

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16 hours ago, system32 said:

I use Solar-Assistant + Solar-Assistant Bull/Hubble AM RS232 cable connected to the master Hubble AM-2 battery.
https://solar-assistant.io/shop/products/hubble_am

The battery information provided is quite good, but does not provide cell data 😞
See https://solar-assistant.io/help/dashboard/battery
image.thumb.png.0d5f2fcc2d36efc5f4a0a5603fe5d295.png


I've enable MQTT on Solar-Assistant and keep 1 minute snaps of the values in a PostgreSQL database.
I use the PostgreSQL data Battery_Energy_Out kWh and SOC decrease from 19:00pm to 05:00am to determine bank capacity which matches bank Capacity above.
 

Hi @system32

 

Thanks for this post and please keep us updated. I believe I have the same issue with my Hubble AM-2. I only have one pack installed, but this is what's being reported by the BMS:

image.png.eb5f621b05df8b296f18acafa3373dde.png

 

As you can see the CAPACITY has dropped from 100AH previously to only 53.7AH, which means a massive ~47% drop after only 68 cycles.

I opened a ticket with Hubble in December (twice actually). The first time they responded that the inverter is not charging the battery properly (BS) and the second time they closed it without any response (I will pursue this further with them, but I was on vacation).

My theory is that one of the cells are stuffed.

Even at 100% SOC, there is a substantial difference between the highest and lowest cell voltage, which grows to 200mV as it discharges.

I don't have the actual graphs anymore, but it "failed" something like this:

1) Reported SOC 100%, reported Capacity 100AH

2) Battery discharged to ~47% SOC and then went into alarm state and disconnected from inverter.

3) After restarting both battery and inverter, the battery started recharging from 0% SOC ! This is strange as it was at 47% when it alarmed.

4) It charged find until 53% SOC (which kinda makes sense because it was supposed charge 47% to 100%, not 0% to 53%, right)

5) After a short while, the BMS automatically altered the reported SOC to 100% and capacity to 53.7AH !!

image.thumb.png.5478d0a97bf78aa8969f014bf0078d11.png

 

My hunch is that as it discharges the lowest cell reaches a cut-off low voltage while the other cells are still fine. In order to, in future, not hit this cut-off on the lowest cell, the BMS has now adjusted the capacity to 53.7AH, so now it is reporting 0% SOC when it's actually still 47%.

 

 

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13 hours ago, system32 said:

The SOH, cycles, temperature, etc above is extracted from each BMS in the batteries.
The Master BMS in Pack #1 controls the charging and tells the SunSynk to stop.

I have logged a call with Hubble, they've checked via RIOT and asked me to take the batteries to the service center for checking.
Just waiting for the details.


EDIT: @MyproDIs it just a matter of pulling the CAN cable, do I need to change any of the SunSynk settings?
https://www.hubblelithium.co.za/sunsynk-hubble-setup.html

That is correct. Just pull the cable and make sure its set to 53.6v to charge. ( I think ) It needs to be at 100% for a while though for the BMS Balancer to kick in.

Looks like there are a few of us having some Issues with these batteries. 

My Solar Assistant will be arriving today and I will monitor it.

From what I can gather, I am getting just under 7kWh from two batteries. They are advertised at 5.5kWh batteries so 11kWh total with 80% usage. factor in 10% for conversion I should be getting just under 8kWh. The one battery is not even a week old. The other is a month and bought from Power-Forum Store. This is the one I took in last week Thursday. 

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1 hour ago, MyproD said:

That is correct. Just pull the cable and make sure its set to 53.6v to charge. ( I think ) It needs to be at 100% for a while though for the BMS Balancer to kick in.

Looks like there are a few of us having some Issues with these batteries. 

My Solar Assistant will be arriving today and I will monitor it.

From what I can gather, I am getting just under 7kWh from two batteries. They are advertised at 5.5kWh batteries so 11kWh total with 80% usage. factor in 10% for conversion I should be getting just under 8kWh. The one battery is not even a week old. The other is a month and bought from Power-Forum Store. This is the one I took in last week Thursday. 

That's similar calculations to what I did:
4 x 5.5kWh = 22kWh of capacity.
I've set 80% DOD and 90% Shutdown.
80% x 22kWh = 17.6kWh for nightly use.
Never gone below 20% SOC as inverter switches to grid.
Unfortunately not getting my expected 17.6kWh.

 

1 hour ago, MyproD said:

That is correct. Just pull the cable and make sure its set to 53.6v to charge. ( I think ) It needs to be at 100% for a while though for the BMS Balancer to kick in.

Looks like there are a few of us having some Issues with these batteries. 

My Solar Assistant will be arriving today and I will monitor it.

From what I can gather, I am getting just under 7kWh from two batteries. They are advertised at 5.5kWh batteries so 11kWh total with 80% usage. factor in 10% for conversion I should be getting just under 8kWh. The one battery is not even a week old. The other is a month and bought from Power-Forum Store. This is the one I took in last week Thursday. 

I use the Bull/Hubble AM RS232 battery cable https://solar-assistant.io/shop/products/hubble_am

Edited by system32
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@HubbleLithium

Do you have an idea of what we should be getting on these units. As you can see, the above does not seem right. 

@Energy-Jason

Sorry, I don't want to bring you into this unnecessarily but you might have a direct line to Hubble. 

Could you, if possible, get some clarity on what we should be getting on these units because from what I can see, many are underperforming. 

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11 minutes ago, MyproD said:

@HubbleLithium

Do you have an idea of what we should be getting on these units. As you can see, the above does not seem right. 

@Energy-Jason

Sorry, I don't want to bring you into this unnecessarily but you might have a direct line to Hubble. 

Could you, if possible, get some clarity on what we should be getting on these units because from what I can see, many are underperforming. 

Not a problem. I will ask Hubble to see this thread asap. Doing that now.

Sincerely

Jay

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This is what concerns me as well:

image.png.4e472a6a6b9093bc47493e5897295f4d.png

At 84% SoC, there is already a >200mV difference to the lowest cell. It appears as though the BMS determines and reports the overall capacity according to the worst performing cell.

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