January 17, 20224 yr Wondering what the percentage failure rate vs units sold are on the AM 2 Hubble's? I bought 2 x AM2's last year. One failed very early on (less than 50 partial cycles) and it was only apparent when DOD was reaching 40% or below. As soon as 40 odd % was reached the one pack would just plummet to close to 0 bringing the SOC down as well as state of health. The RIOT device used to report on SOH per pack - but I see they have taken it away from the dashboard, almost like they do not want the end user to have the detail. Maybe they just need to enable it who knows? Either way I now sit with 2 x AM2's basically brand new with little confidence of the future and the longevity of the product. Unsure of future failures. Scary thing is I was trying to save on the life of the battery and keep it above 50% DOD, problems started surfacing when I wanted to discharge to 35% once daily. After various tests remotely over a period of time Hubble did replace the pack. Having said that, If the clock was turned back I would invest in another product. No negativity implied. All for supporting local!
January 19, 20224 yr I have been away from the forum for a while, but it seems my experiences are not unique. I originally bought 2 x AM-2 batteries, and I am now on battery 3 and 5 (4 was also faulty) To my understanding each time it was a bad cell. Hubble have replaced them each time so far, only frustration is the drive to drop off and collect is a pain to schedule. I also have a RIOT and was similarly surprised they removed the SOH details and had a same view as @abeetude why remove it, although It is still available in the details(click on the i). but not in dark mode though????
January 19, 20224 yr @Kill_switch how old are your batteries and how many cycles? My opinion is that there are way too much failures on the product. It is also my opinion that the true colours / or cracks are starting to show. Should cells fail so early on? Not sure if the other brand experience this as well?
January 20, 20224 yr I bought the system in Jan 2021 Bat1 replaced with bat3 May 2021 Bat2 replaced with Bat4 September 2021 Bat4 replaced with Bat5 December 2021 System currently running on 3&5, I did not note the cycles so can't help there
January 20, 20224 yr Bought 1st AM2 in Feb 2021--still going strong.. Bought 2nd AM2 in Mar 2021--Replaced in October 2021 (bad cell) When the replacement battery was installed, the SOH on the Riot showed 74% for both AM2's, after much back and forth with hubble support, the replacement battery had to me made the new primary battery, and the old primary was changed to secondary. I was told by support that the replacement battery has a newer version of the BMS, hence the change was required. After the change, SOH is 100% In terms of Cycles, the replacement battery was adding 2 to 3 cycles per day, but im not sure if this is, it syncing cycles with the older battery. Prior to the battery replacement, i had over 200 cycles on both batteries.. The cycle count has since been removed from the riot dashboard, so i have no idea what it is on now.. i cycle these batteries daily down to 15%..
January 20, 20224 yr 15 hours ago, abeetude said: @Kill_switch how old are your batteries and how many cycles? My opinion is that there are way too much failures on the product. It is also my opinion that the true colours / or cracks are starting to show. Should cells fail so early on? Not sure if the other brand experience this as well? As said before. Compare serial/batch numbers. Thats the only way to see if there was a certain batch that is affected. Mine was installed in Aug last year and from the serial number it seems to be a Jun 2021 manufacture. It is still too early after 152 cycles to assume anything but up to now it has shown no deterioration. My average SOC is down to 30- 40% over night. It only went down to 20% and shut off twice since I had it. So maybe I am just lucky ?? Edited January 20, 20224 yr by zsde
January 20, 20224 yr 4 hours ago, Kill_switch said: I bought the system in Jan 2021 Bat1 replaced with bat3 May 2021 Bat2 replaced with Bat4 September 2021 Bat4 replaced with Bat5 December 2021 System currently running on 3&5, I did not note the cycles so can't help there Three failures in under a year😳,
January 20, 20224 yr 1 hour ago, zsde said: As said before. Compare serial/batch numbers. Thats the only way to see if there was a certain batch that is affected. Mine was installed in Aug last year and from the serial number it seems to be a Jun 2021 manufacture. It is still too early after 152 cycles to assume anything but up to now it has shown no deterioration. My average SOC is down to 30- 40% over night. It only went down to 20% and shut off twice since I had it. So maybe I am just lucky ?? I'm not 100% sure if this is correct, someone told me that the individual cell voltage should never be over 3,52 V to achieve max life span on a lithium battery. I see yours average 4,01 V looking at the spec on your battery 53,6 V / 16 Cells = 3,35 V why is it so high? may more that 16 cells
January 20, 20224 yr 24 minutes ago, Antonio de Sa said: I'm not 100% sure if this is correct, someone told me that the individual cell voltage should never be over 3,52 V to achieve max life span on a lithium battery. I see yours average 4,01 V looking at the spec on your battery 53,6 V / 16 Cells = 3,35 V why is it so high? may more that 16 cells Hubble are not pure LiFePO4. This was discussed in this thread " at 51V nominal = 3.92V per cell, 54V Max = 4.15V and 42V cutoff = 3.23V. Interesting seeing a chemistry that isn't LFP but NMC!" Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt (LiNiMnCoO2) — NMC 3.60V, 3.70V nominal; typical operating range 3.0–4.2V/cell, or higher Specific energy (capacity) 150–220Wh/kg Charge (C-rate) 0.7–1C, charges to 4.20V, some go to 4.30V; 3h charge typical. Charge current above 1C shortens battery life. Discharge (C-rate) 1C; 2C possible on some cells; 2.50V cut-off Also the Hubble graph shows up to 4,2V. It's normal for this chemistry. Edited January 20, 20224 yr by zsde
January 24, 20224 yr On 2022/01/20 at 2:43 PM, Antonio de Sa said: I'm not 100% sure if this is correct, someone told me that the individual cell voltage should never be over 3,52 V to achieve max life span on a lithium battery. I see yours average 4,01 V looking at the spec on your battery 53,6 V / 16 Cells = 3,35 V why is it so high? Battery voltage depends on the chemistry. On 2022/01/20 at 3:00 PM, zsde said: Hubble are not pure LiFePO4. This was discussed in this thread LFP specifically refers to LiFePO₄, so it isn't LFP at all. Edited January 24, 20224 yr by Gnome
January 24, 20224 yr Spoke to Hubble this morning and they requested i drop all three battery's off. Waiting on feed back as they are going to test it later. Must say they are very helpful !
January 24, 20224 yr Morne I agree. They seem super willing to help. I have found the readings are not that accurate. Just to make sure you are getting the correct capacity, use the manual settings. Cutoff at 44 Volts ( some say you can go down to 42 ) and charge up to 53.6. Compare how many kWh you are using and charging. I have found the manual settings give me an extra 20% at 44 Volts. Testing again this eve to see what happens.
January 25, 20224 yr Alright, so at 44 Volts I managed to charge 9.7kWh today. Solar Assistant is showing 170Ah capacity for the bank 2x Am2's
January 26, 20224 yr 10 hours ago, MyproD said: Alright, so at 44 Volts I managed to charge 9.7kWh today. Solar Assistant is showing 170Ah capacity for the bank 2x Am2's At 44 Volts, what's the voltage of the lowest cell in each pack ? In my case that's a lot more important than the overall battery voltage, because the BMS will switch off the battery when the lowest cell hits 2.9v, irrespective of the overall battery voltage. EDIT: Just wanted to add that so far Hubble has been very helpful. I dropped off my battery at them and I'm waiting for feedback. Edited January 26, 20224 yr by Mier
January 26, 20224 yr I will double check tomorrow. I did not have a look. I think they were all still above 3 volts. Nothing shut down or went into sleep mode.
January 27, 20224 yr 21 hours ago, Mier said: At 44 Volts, what's the voltage of the lowest cell in each pack ? In my case that's a lot more important than the overall battery voltage, because the BMS will switch off the battery when the lowest cell hits 2.9v, irrespective of the overall battery voltage. EDIT: Just wanted to add that so far Hubble has been very helpful. I dropped off my battery at them and I'm waiting for feedback. So after the evening I am sitting at 3% battery according to Solar Assistant but Solarman showing 32% now after yesterdays charging up. Cells are at around 3.5volts and nicely balanced across the range.
January 27, 20224 yr Author 1 hour ago, MyproD said: So after the evening I am sitting at 3% battery according to Solar Assistant but Solarman showing 32% now after yesterdays charging up. Cells are at around 3.5volts and nicely balanced across the range. What does the display on the inverter show? Does the Inverter display correspond with the Solar-Assistant? Images not taken at same time. Edited January 27, 20224 yr by system32
January 28, 20224 yr Also having issues with my AM2 BMS reports 'full capacity' at 45Ah after 2 months and only getting 2kWh from it. only 20mV between the highest and lowest cells, so dont think balancing's the issue here. I have a firmware update from hubble, not sure if this will fix anything or if i'll need to take it in for a replacement.
January 28, 20224 yr @CPTSolar, a friend had the same problem, took it to Hubble in Cape Town and seems the bms was faulty and they replaced it.
January 30, 20224 yr On 2022/01/11 at 6:01 PM, system32 said: The batteries are in a shaded, well ventilated large basement garage. The garage is at Johannesburg indoor temperatures. The garage is too big to cool. The garage is used for my motor bike & bicycle. (no car) The temperature above is whilst charging. What's your temperature whilst peak charging? Very interesting thread you have going here @system32. One area I have not seen discussed is the method of connecting the batteries. I'm especially interested in the 4 x AM2 type configurations, as looking at the issues around parallel connectivity and the fact incorrect connections could/would impact individual batteries. Example is looking at Victron's (Their diagrams - hence the mention) write up on battery connectivity, where standard parallel connections will impact the first and last battery. Hence the need for diagonal or other methods to be used. You have a great configuration going here, could you confirm the connection method and cable type (mm2) used for your 4 x AM2 connection.
January 31, 20224 yr Author 10 hours ago, AC-DC said: Very interesting thread you have going here @system32. One area I have not seen discussed is the method of connecting the batteries. I'm especially interested in the 4 x AM2 type configurations, as looking at the issues around parallel connectivity and the fact incorrect connections could/would impact individual batteries. Example is looking at Victron's (Their diagrams - hence the mention) write up on battery connectivity, where standard parallel connections will impact the first and last battery. Hence the need for diagonal or other methods to be used. You have a great configuration going here, could you confirm the connection method and cable type (mm2) used for your 4 x AM2 connection. In my case the batteries are wall mounted: And connected like this: The inverter to battery cables are 70mm2. The battery interconnect cables are the standard ones supplied by Hubble. If I was doing it again, I would consider a rack with DC bus. Edited January 31, 20224 yr by system32
January 31, 20224 yr @AC-DC I only have one battery, but my cable is 35mm sqr @system32 You mention using the standard Hubble cables for interlinks. If I remember that's 16mm sqr. My understanding is that the current should flow equally to/from each battery (1/4 of current to/from each). Would that not mean that your first interlink would carry 3/4 of the current and therefore possibly underspec'd ? Just an update on my battery: Hubble tested the battery and confirmed that I have a faulty cell. They will be replacing the battery in the next few days when more stock arrives. So, kudos to Hubble for their support and after-sales service.
January 31, 20224 yr Author 22 minutes ago, Mier said: @AC-DC I only have one battery, but my cable is 35mm sqr @system32 You mention using the standard Hubble cables for interlinks. If I remember that's 16mm sqr. My understanding is that the current should flow equally to/from each battery (1/4 of current to/from each). Would that not mean that your first interlink would carry 3/4 of the current and therefore possibly underspec'd ? Just an update on my battery: Hubble tested the battery and confirmed that I have a faulty cell. They will be replacing the battery in the next few days when more stock arrives. So, kudos to Hubble for their support and after-sales service. I'll check with the electrician wrt to the cables - perhaps we switch to a busbar. I never noticed any heating on the cables. IIRC, The maximum charge is limited to 6400W (133A at 48V) [PV Array size] and maximum discharge setting is limited to 7200W (150A at 48V). Edited January 31, 20224 yr by system32
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