I have been asked to consult on existing Sunsynk 16kw 1Ph installation that display error code "F64 sink high temperature failure". I believe the IGBT's are running hot due to inadequate ventilation. I checked fans are running when load exceeds 11kw and keeps on running as expected. The peak AC load peaks around 13.5 to 14.2kw. There is 9.2kw solar installed and 20kwh(4) Sunsynk batteries. As soon as load is limited to 5~6kw the error code F64 does not appear but as soon as load is increaced to 12kw after around 35~40 minutes the inverter switch off with error code F64.

I have run the inverter for 2 days with cupboard sliding doors open without a problem indicating inadequate ventilation. The battery disconnect is also a concern as the pos and neg cables are right up against the inverter. I will be in a process to relocate the inverter installation to more suitable location. A few pictures taken feel free to comment maybe together we can find an easier solution as to extend all the cables to a different location.

Ps. The extraction fan in the picture is not efficient at all.

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 20242 yr by TaliaB
Entered Ps comment

What a mess. Why oh why do ppl install like this. No thought given for heat dissipation or safety. 

Agreement, as above, to create clearance on the sides and behind the inverter for airflow. Battery cables away, maybe against the side walls, and the inverter better centralised in the cabinet.

Is the airflow upwards? I'm assuming the inverter's cooling fans move air upwards. If so, I would add, to move the surface-mount DB's away also, ie. possibly against the side walls of the cabinet also, else maybe on the other side of the wall?

Regarding the vents, to have two, the lower vent to allow cooler air INTO the cabinet, and an upper vent to remove warm air FROM the cabinet back into the next room. Don't create suction below the inverter. Keep cables from obstructing the space just before the vents.

No guarantee this will work to keep the inverter inside the cabinet. Best maybe just to move it after all.

Well the warranty is out of the window because minimum clearances not followed.

Inverter 500 mm sides, top and bottom and front 1000 mm.

Batteries 150 mm all sides.

For the rest of the install....

Ja Nee

Edited July 13, 20242 yr by Virwat
Softened my wording.

18 hours ago, TaliaB said:

maybe together we can find an easier solution as to extend all the cables to a different location.

I think one realizes that the best (only?) solution would be a proper re-installation. 

13 minutes ago, CobusK said:

I think one realizes that the best (only?) solution would be a proper re-installation. 

 

13 minutes ago, CobusK said:

I think one realizes that the best (only?) solution would be a proper re-installation. 

 

17 hours ago, GreenFields said:

Agreement, as above, to create clearance on the sides and behind the inverter for airflow. Battery cables away, maybe against the side walls, and the inverter better centralised in the cabinet.

Is the airflow upwards? I'm assuming the inverter's cooling fans move air upwards. If so, I would add, to move the surface-mount DB's away also, ie. possibly against the side walls of the cabinet also, else maybe on the other side of the wall?

Regarding the vents, to have two, the lower vent to allow cooler air INTO the cabinet, and an upper vent to remove warm air FROM the cabinet back into the next room. Don't create suction below the inverter. Keep cables from obstructing the space just before the vents.

No guarantee this will work to keep the inverter inside the cabinet. Best maybe just to move it after all.

 

18 hours ago, Steve87 said:

What a mess. Why oh why do ppl install like this. No thought given for heat dissipation or safety. 

Thanks guys for the input yes all agrees the installation is a bust!!! But the plot thickens i will post more details as soon as i concluded my investigation. Watch this space!!

18 hours ago, GreenFields said:

No guarantee this will work to keep the inverter inside the cabinet. Best maybe just to move it after all.

@GreenFields

All valid points you raised but to me compliance and safety is key, the environment is too cramped and combustible. What i have seen so far according to the installation specifications there need to be smoke detection above the lfp batteries linked to the fire alarm system and there need to be class D fire extinguishers not more than 2 meters from the battery installation. So careful consideration on the next installation position for inverter, batteries and switchgear.

Edited July 13, 20242 yr by TaliaB

I can also say if this standard of shoddy work is in place. All hope of the proper sized cables & proper neutral to earth relay bond is completely out of the window. 

If this is what is on the inside the PV installation must also be a bigger mess. What pity that inverter was under such abuse. Heat will kill a machine like that in no time. The 16kW Deye/ Sunsynk in my opinion is the most robust of any of their range. The only model that left a major impression on me. 

 

 

29 minutes ago, Steve87 said:

I can also say if this standard of shoddy work is in place. All hope of the proper sized cables & proper neutral to earth relay bond is completely out of the window. 

If this is what is on the inside the PV installation must also be a bigger mess. What pity that inverter was under such abuse. Heat will kill a machine like that in no time. The 16kW Deye/ Sunsynk in my opinion is the most robust of any of their range. The only model that left a major impression on me. 

 

 

100% correct that is why i need to do the assessment on all aspects of the installation. I need to do this asap this weekend as the cupboard is in the main walkway( corridor) of the consulting rooms and a lot of foot traffic during the week. I have isolated the pv and load switched to utility via the bypass switch( thanks for small miracles) that enables me to remove the inverter. I will arrange with Herholdts Group in Cpt on Monday to assess if the inverter or IGBT's was damaged due to heat. I agree with you @Steve87the 16kw Sunsynk/Deye are in a diffrent class good solid machines.

This installation issues has now become a serious problem. It’s not just the lack of professionalism from the installer; it’s now a legal matter. The Certificate of Compliance (COC) is invalid because the Installation Electrician (IE) who signed it is not qualified for this setting, as it involves a medical environment (doctor's consulting room and pathology labs). A sign-off from a Master Installation Electrician (MIE) was required.

I’m now caught in the middle since I tendered my services and need to see this through. Additionally, it has come to my attention that the installer’s electrical contracting business is not registered with the Department of Labor, which complicates matters further. There was a failure in due diligence during the tender process, suggesting possible unethical practices.

I will keep you updated on the situation as soon as the legal issues are resolved.

My guess is that absolutely nothing will happen because you won't be able to track these installers down. Usually such installers will install in this way & never make face again. 

The legal systems we have promise a lot but just don't deliver too much. It's really a difficult one for you @TaliaB. To make matters worse, the installation was just not safe to begin with in any environment. Now with that said all the other chickens come home to roost of the legalities of an IE applying his trade in a domain outside of his scope of authority. 

A very interesting site indeed. 

Vasbyt...

On 2024/07/12 at 3:31 PM, TaliaB said:

I have been asked to consult on existing Sunsynk 16kw 1Ph installation that display error code "F64 sink high temperature failure". I believe the IGBT's are running hot due to inadequate ventilation. I checked fans are running when load exceeds 11kw and keeps on running as expected. The peak AC load peaks around 13.5 to 14.2kw. There is 9.2kw solar installed and 20kwh(4) Sunsynk batteries. As soon as load is limited to 5~6kw the error code F64 does not appear but as soon as load is increaced to 12kw after around 35~40 minutes the inverter switch off with error code F64.

I have run the inverter for 2 days with cupboard sliding doors open without a problem indicating inadequate ventilation. The battery disconnect is also a concern as the pos and neg cables are right up against the inverter. I will be in a process to relocate the inverter installation to more suitable location. A few pictures taken feel free to comment maybe together we can find an easier solution as to extend all the cables to a different location.

Ps. The extraction fan in the picture is not efficient at all.

 

 

 

Sorry for my tone!! But that is one hot 🔥 mess sorry @TaliaB this one needs plenty of fixing sorry wrong word re-, installation no way you can make it work properly in that space. Those inverters are huge and just imagine 14kw power generation and the heat it will produce with no ventilation. There is no space between the batteries either. Good luck fixing this installation plenty of work to be done. How does the solar side look judging by the inverter installation workmanship nothing good may come from the solar array side.

On 2024/07/16 at 10:42 PM, Derek3 said:

Sorry for my tone!! But that is one hot 🔥 mess sorry @TaliaB this one needs plenty of fixing sorry wrong word re-, installation no way you can make it work properly in that space. Those inverters are huge and just imagine 14kw power generation and the heat it will produce with no ventilation. There is no space between the batteries either. Good luck fixing this installation plenty of work to be done. How does the solar side look judging by the inverter installation workmanship nothing good may come from the solar array side.

Hi Derek yes nothing gòod to report on the solar side either. I am not at liberty to say or post pictures of the installation due to ongoing investigation. What i can post is the dangerous situation with the connections on the MC4 connectors. The inverter logs revealed F63 Arc Fault because there where Arc faults. Forum can judge for themselves. All i can say to solar installers make sure to crimp those Mc4 correctly use the crimper for the Mc4 connectors specifically not any lug crimper. Some pictures i took of one of the connectors in the middle of the string.

Below fotos of the connector that arched due to bad crimping. Short video indicating bad crimping( incorrect crimping pliers)

 

 

 

And that is a fire hazard the inverter reported arc fault but was just ignored. Sad situation best components used but just a very bad installation and workmanship. I think a lack of experience comes to mind.

 

 

 

 

This is how a good crimp should look like and the correct mc4 crimping tool.

I wish I could say that this was a shock to find but actually it's consistent with the poor workmanship. I have seen too many ppl that say this is easy to do & then make a mess like this either on their own installation or as unfortunate customers on the receiving end of such a poor quality of installation. 

MC4s are purpose made & fit the application but the equipment only works as good as the crimper. We can only thank the fact that Deye & Sunsynk have Arc protection that avoids this becoming more than a few melted MC4s & not burn out into something more significant. This is an example of caught in time & exposed an otherwise very low quality installation of fantastic equipment. 

How does this affect the customer: 

The warranty of the inverter is probably void due to over heating numerous times in the Hot box space. 

Repairs paid for out of warranty to get the IGBTs up to speed again. 

Relocation of this installation to somewhere else at the owners cost. Let's face it all that has happened is that the equipment is now second hand & been abused & is being installed by an approved good operator in @TaliaB.

We must draw something out of this experience. Safety aside would a prospective customer ever want such a bad experience... Absolutely not. 

Vet the installer, vet his installations, get references, talk to past customers, get a feel for after sales....You spending a lot of money, make sure it's not wasted on poor operators like this that will not only cost you more money but could damage your equipment & burn your place down...the time taken to do this is not wasted. It will save you from this horror movie. Do the investigation when there is no pressure & bitter experience. Post installation of this mess it's just too late. 

I wonder how much the owner/customer is to blame here.

In all my years of buidling and installing stuff, anything from carports, awnings, walls, networks, computer servers, pipes, software. etc we always found a customer that was unwilling to change his mind about how things should be done even if we brought up the legal aspect of why it should be done differently. They always want it in that room, in that corner, in that small space, next to that thing, oriented in that way, working that way and costing only that much irrespective of whether it will work or whether it will be legal.

Yes this installer did a poor job but what hand does the customer have in all these poor decisions? Just wondering.

Edited July 19, 20242 yr by TheMac

@TheMaccould be true & I have been in numerous similar situations when a customer wants to do something or get something connected in an unsafe way. 

I express my reasons for why it can't be done. If they still insist, I'm sorry I walk away from that particular area of the work. That is exactly why proper planning & having a diagram of the works to be carried out is vital. Sometimes the design might change post installation because of whatever valid reasons & then a updated drawing can be prepared. 

But in short, nothing should compromise safety. Every installation is an advert for your workmanship & your reputation. I take the work personally, I wouldn't sleep well at night knowing there is a hot Installation like this in someone's premises. But some guys have no pride & don't care past the final payment...

Edited July 19, 20242 yr by Steve87

Ɓeen very busy since last Thursday sorting out this botched installation. R8600 repairs to the Sunsynk 16kw due to overheating where F64 error occured 46 times according to the logs. The IGBT'S and some capacitors was replaced as precaution measures although the inverter was in working condition.

So the inverter switchgear and batteries was moved to a labeling room where space was created. Pulled in a new 4 core 16mm² armoured cable to the sub distribution board inside this room. Also had to pull another cable from the 60kva diesel generator to the sub db board with aux cable to the ATS.

The battery capacity was changed from 4 x 5kwh Sunsynk to 2 x 15.97kwh Sunsynk batteries. I bought the 4 x Sunsynk 5kwh batteries from the client and they paid for the upgraded battery capacity.

Hold on to your hats, the solar array was a disaster not so much the panels but the installation configuration. 10 x Jinko 570Wp panels connected in series to Mppt1. These inverters are robust as the dc input voltage was 508.8v(Voc) with inverter max dc input of 500v and a safe input voltage of 450v. Found 4 x Mc4 connectors loose connection( incorrect insert crimp) at the combiner input. 1 string(10 panels) facing North connected to Mppt1 and 2nd string(6 panels) facing East connected to Mppt2. My guys also had to fix some of the array mounting rails and run new solar cable. I removed 2 panel from string 1 and added 2 panels to string 2 on the east side with final configuration 8S1P North and 8S1P East landscape orientation with total solar power of 9.2kwp

So yes this fix was fun and games but finally tested today need to fit some labels tomorrow do some training with staff then issue the test sheet and COC. Below pictures of the new installation and 1 panel on the North string to be rectified circled in red. Because of the roof construction the panels are portrait orientated. To top everything we had quite bad weather in Cpt.

 

 

 

 

Well done 👍. After having gone through this a while back, I'm relieved for the owners that the mess is sorted. 

Well done @TaliaB it's hard work & it's harder to fix someone else's mess rather than carry out a new clean installation from the beginning. Your client must be very happy & what's more is that most installation teams are not willing to take on such a challenge. So honestly well done ✅

Well done @TaliaB, and @Steve87 is right. In any line of work it is easier to do it from fresh than to fix somebody else's bad job. 

Steve was right about another thing - that there is a lot of this about. The installers/plumbers/electricians etc take advantage of the layperson's lack of knowledge. We chose the house we currently live in because it was the cleanest looking house of those on our short list. But in reality, multiple artisans had done multiple rubbish jobs, taking advantage of the owner's lack of knowledge. Which I have to! I get a plumber in, I have no way of evaluating his job. So lessons learned the hard way have given me a short list of people that I can rely on.

I have chatted to so many people who put money down to get "solar" but who are saving nothing on their bill and barely get through a load shed (OK, these days they are just wondering where the savings they heard about are). There are lots of what Mrs Fawlty replied to as "cut price cockup merchants" out there.

On 2024/08/15 at 8:40 PM, TaliaB said:

Ɓeen very busy since last Thursday sorting out this botched installation. R8600 repairs to the Sunsynk 16kw due to overheating where F64 error occured 46 times according to the logs. The IGBT'S and some capacitors was replaced as precaution measures although the inverter was in working condition.

So the inverter switchgear and batteries was moved to a labeling room where space was created. Pulled in a new 4 core 16mm² armoured cable to the sub distribution board inside this room. Also had to pull another cable from the 60kva diesel generator to the sub db board with aux cable to the ATS.

The battery capacity was changed from 4 x 5kwh Sunsynk to 2 x 15.97kwh Sunsynk batteries. I bought the 4 x Sunsynk 5kwh batteries from the client and they paid for the upgraded battery capacity.

Hold on to your hats, the solar array was a disaster not so much the panels but the installation configuration. 10 x Jinko 570Wp panels connected in series to Mppt1. These inverters are robust as the dc input voltage was 508.8v(Voc) with inverter max dc input of 500v and a safe input voltage of 450v. Found 4 x Mc4 connectors loose connection( incorrect insert crimp) at the combiner input. 1 string(10 panels) facing North connected to Mppt1 and 2nd string(6 panels) facing East connected to Mppt2. My guys also had to fix some of the array mounting rails and run new solar cable. I removed 2 panel from string 1 and added 2 panels to string 2 on the east side with final configuration 8S1P North and 8S1P East landscape orientation with total solar power of 9.2kwp

So yes this fix was fun and games but finally tested today need to fit some labels tomorrow do some training with staff then issue the test sheet and COC. Below pictures of the new installation and 1 panel on the North string to be rectified circled in red. Because of the roof construction the panels are portrait orientated. To top everything we had quite bad weather in Cpt.

 

 

 

 

Nice and well done @TaliaB great installation and i am sure your client is now a happy chappy. Can't even compare the before with the after.

Just as a matter of interest for installers i us the O-Line OBO Rapid Compartment Trunking to run AC and DC in 1 trunking makes your life much easier and satisfied Sans regs. See below.

 

 

I am quite chuffed to see the 16kw Sunsynk is now very happy about his new home judging by the temperature the last 7 days he is taking it in his stride😜 Reading from the chart you can see the rise of ambient temperature summer is here. From F64 sink high temperature failure to the below temps who could ask for more.