One of the reasons that unbundling is linked with privatization is the unions realize that nobody would buy into ESKOM in its present state.

If you separate the wheat from the chaff however, some of the monopolistic wheat would be very attractive to private investment.

"Unbundling"doesn't address ESKOM's issues, but the government is spinning the sound byte as something that is being done to fix ESKOM.

In reality what unbundling certainly does do is lay the groundwork for future privatization of parts of ESKOM. The tax-payers will always get shafted with the remaining chaff.

The unions know this, and don't trust the government.

I am not personally against privatization, but as for trusting the government, well, I just wouldn't like to see the wheat going to a select few brother-in-laws.

I think this past week represents the new load-shedding model SA will have to get used to for a few years.

It had an entirely different feel to the "whackamoley" crisis load-shedding, to now being a planned operational decision.

It'll happen during off peak periods to minimize economic impact and reduce the operating costs of diesel plant, and if there enough generation to cope, something will be taken off the system for philosophy maintenance. Probably a good thing in the longer term to bite the bullet and get the real issues sorted instead of these present day sticky plaster fixes.

Looks like Andre has said that if they can't avoid load-shedding and can't afford the diesel then ESKOM is going to at provide some certainty, convenience where it can, save some money and get the maintenance issues fixed.

People wondering whether to pull the trigger on a solar hybrid system may as well, because this style Stage 2 load shedding will become the norm for a while, methinks.

5 minutes ago, phil.g00 said:

because this style Stage 2 load shedding will become the norm for a while, methinks.

I agree. What does not make sense to me is that load shedding has now carried over into Monday. Why? 

47 minutes ago, Fuenkli said:

I agree. What does not make sense to me is that load shedding has now carried over into Monday. Why? 

I think the new philosophy is "if we aren't load-shedding there isn't enough plant out for maintenance".

SA lifestyles will have to adjust for a few years, I actually think this is a sensible approach.

I hope the politicians allow this, and stay out of ESKOM's engine room.

The only thing I want politicians to realize is ESKOM is load-shedding after 9am, and that's when solar could provide a dig out, if they cut through the red tape. There are people who are forced to spend money for limiting equipment so as to not export power into the grid.

Safety-wise, there must be a compromise between the free electricity illegal connections in Soweto and the hyper-expensive Rolls Royce compliance rules of domestic solar that can benefit the country in these times. A stroke of a pen and they could use pre-existing generation in the very short term.

Edited February 3, 20206 yr by phil.g00

28 minutes ago, phil.g00 said:

A stroke of a pen and they could use pre-existing generation in the very short term.

 https://www.fin24.com/Economy/South-Africa/mining-companies-can-generate-own-power-without-licenses-matashe-20200203

Well, that didn't really take long at all.

Next question Gwede, will the mines be limited to only generating a quarter of the power they need?

I don't sense that from this article, because they'd still be at ESKOM's mercy and the mines are gunning for power independence.

Now if the power system can handle that, why does domestic solar need to limited to 25% of its supply MCB?

It may be true that if we all got solar then the system may be in the crap in the case of a frequency event.

But, right now we don't all have solar and the  power system is in the crap on a daily basis because of a lack of generation already.

Let's cross the first bridge first.

42 minutes ago, phil.g00 said:

SA lifestyles will have to adjust for a few years, I actually think this is a sensible approach.

I agree. We'll have to see if government will stay out of it, but for the moment this feels like a very deliberate change in the approach. I remember reading an article back in 2013 (ish?) saying essentially the same thing. Step 1... borrow money for more Diesel, so you can take coal plants out of service for maintenance. Step 2... low hanging fruit (that's a software industry term for small tasks that brings lots of progress), there are many plants with small things that can be fixed, do them first (that's also why you got the loan for the Diesel), step 3... regular planned and scheduled outages to fix the larger things.

I think the one thing that has changed since 2013... is step 1 got a lot harder to do.

47 minutes ago, phil.g00 said:

I think the new philosophy is "if we aren't load-shedding there isn't enough plant out for maintenance".

SA lifestyles will have to adjust for a few years, I actually think this is a sensible approach.

I hope the politicians allow this, and stay out of ESKOM's engine room.

The only thing I want politicians to realize is ESKOM is load-shedding after 9am, and that's when solar could provide a dig out, if they cut through the red tape. There are people who are forced to spend money for limiting equipment so as to not export power into the grid.

Safety-wise, there must be a compromise between the free electricity illegal connections in Soweto and the hyper-expensive Rolls Royce compliance rules of domestic solar that can benefit the country in these times. A stroke of a pen and they could use pre-existing generation in the very short term.

Agree 100%.

I think De Ruyter is actually 'managing' the situation as opposed to letting the situation control him.

I also feel that Gweezy, and the NEC (who pull his strings), are what is hindering us all from assisting to solve the problem. All that is required, as you say, is the stroke of a pen. The problem is the complex network of patronage and corruption that is required to pick up that pen.

 

7 minutes ago, phil.g00 said:

 https://www.fin24.com/Economy/South-Africa/mining-companies-can-generate-own-power-without-licenses-matashe-20200203

Well, that didn't really take long at all.

 

Indeed.

Now let's work our corner of the problem.

 

We stay near the main railway line from Johannesburg to Durban . Sins load shedding started in Dessember most of the trains on this route changed to diesel locomotives . So now we have 2 extra major diesel consumers for diesel .  This must have a massive impact on diesel delivery's . How long will the rail budget be able to do this .

There's also been interesting developments in Johannesburg, where City Power has been looking at alternative ways of keeping the lights (mostly) on whilst satisfying Eskom's demand that they reduce consumption by X Mw.

We went through Friday, then the whole weekend with no load shedding.

City Power say that this was achieved by a combination of means

1) A contract with the privately owned Kelvin power station. Apparently this provides enough power to Johannesburg only, not into the national grid, to compensate for a stage 2 shed (and there is more capacity available, if a contract can be negotiated).

2) Use of ripple switches to turn geysers off

3) Using smart meters to cap consumption. This, if they are doing it (they've said for some time that they have this capability) affects only heavy users. They can set the smart meters to allow (say) 35 amps. If your draw exists that you first get warnings (your power will be cut and then reinstated a second or so later, effectively like somebody flashing your lights on an off) and then if you don't reduce draw then the meter cuts you off. Until such time as they release the cap on the meters.

I haven't heard any reports of (3) happening, and nobody in my street has reported getting an unexpectedly cold shower so I'm not sure how much of (2) is going on, so I suspect that (1) is the ace up City Power's sleeve. But it's interesting in that with a bit of forethought and some negotiating (where there are power providers to negotiate with), a city can reduce it's draw by enough to satisfy Eskom and keep the lights on for the residents.
 

Me and my big mouth. A big substation in Kelvin went down and took Kelvin out too. Apparently they have one generating unit back on line and hope to be back to full capacity (per contract) tomorrow morning sometime.

1 hour ago, Bobster said:

City Power say that this was achieved by a combination of means

2) Use of ripple switches to turn geysers off

I haven't heard any reports of (3) happening, and nobody in my street has reported getting an unexpectedly cold shower so I'm not sure how much of (2) is going on, so I suspect that (1) is the ace up City Power's sleeve.
 

Ripple relays are in use all the time to shift demand - mine is active for big chunks of the day (arount 6h00-9h30 and 16h00-20h30). The chances of people noticing is very small.

If City Power can keep the power on and allow grid feedback then solar grid tie systems can also help them.

State looking to create power generation entity 'outside of Eskom'

sounds very much like a "lets create a  new eskom and get investors to write off investments when we liquidate the old eskom".

Why would you create a new energy generation unit partnered with government when you already have one. I smell a rat here.

 

1 hour ago, stoic said:

State looking to create power generation entity 'outside of Eskom'

sounds very much like a "lets create a  new eskom and get investors to write off investments when we liquidate the old eskom".

Why would you create a new energy generation unit partnered with government when you already have one. I smell a rat here.

 

Well, it would be a clean start. It would have none of Eskom's history and culture. That's why it might work. He's proposing a PPP. Private money is unlikely to invest in Eskom right now, but that doesn't mean they don't want a slice of the power generation pie. So a clean start may appeal.

It would take years to come on line unless they're going to put money into refurbishing moth-balled plants.

7 minutes ago, Bobster said:

Well, it would be a clean start. It would have none of Eskom's history and culture. That's why it might work. He's proposing a PPP. Private money is unlikely to invest in Eskom right now, but that doesn't mean they don't want a slice of the power generation pie. So a clean start may appeal.

It would take years to come on line unless they're going to put money into refurbishing moth-balled plants.

This must be a joke. A really big problem is the culture of non-payment which was cultivated by the ruling party. How about we create a PPP to supply Soweto exclusively ....

Who can expect payment on time for services rendered in this time. Will it come from Eskom who is totally poor?

And minista Mantasha is not to be trusted. He is just trying to swing the spotlight away from him at the Indaba.

My 5c

30 minutes ago, Johandup said:

My 5c

very old coin... worth a lot today 🙂

3 hours ago, P1000 said:

Ripple relays are in use all the time to shift demand - mine is active for big chunks of the day (arount 6h00-9h30 and 16h00-20h30). The chances of people noticing is very small.

I wish people would provide their location. Where I am in Joburg the electricians have ripped out the ripple relays many years ago..

Where are ripple relays still in operation in a big way (which is a prerequisite for this system to be effective)?

5 hours ago, Richard Mackay said:

I wish people would provide their location. Where I am in Joburg the electricians have ripped out the ripple relays many years ago..

Where are ripple relays still in operation in a big way (which is a prerequisite for this system to be effective)?

Same with me.

 

When I lived in Randburg, one morning I had freezing-water only (during winter) and thought the thermostat on the geyser died. Got an electrician out who eventually found the problem at the ripple-relay that never switched the geyser back on again. Bypassed it and all was well again.

 

-G-

The control signal was added  to the mains and the ripple relay detected this.

But it wasn't solid in a control sense (i.e. switch something and then check if it has switched..)

Is this new energy policy for mining written somewhere, or did Gwede just make it up on the way to the conference? I see the media is reporting Gwede's remarks, but there is no policy or draft policy that I have come across. 

1 hour ago, DeepBass9 said:

or did Gwede just make it up on the way to the conference?

i cant find it either... seems a lot is being made up 'on the way' 🤔

 

17 hours ago, Johandup said:

This must be a joke. A really big problem is the culture of non-payment which was cultivated by the ruling party. How about we create a PPP to supply Soweto exclusively ....

Who can expect payment on time for services rendered in this time. Will it come from Eskom who is totally poor?

And minista Mantasha is not to be trusted. He is just trying to swing the spotlight away from him at the Indaba.

My 5c

OK... here's a thing that I know is possible but I don't understand how.

In the UK they have one grid, multiple service providers. All houses are supplied by the same grid. Yet a householder can decide what service provider he wants to deal with (for example, a friend of mine chooses to deal with a particular providers who generate only renewable energy).

OK... so do all these service providers just pump into one grid, thus into one stream of electricity, and the householders all draw from that stream? Or is there a more exact way of doing it?  If it's all feeding into one stream, how do they know who you are buying from? Would it not be possible for a provider to charge for more than they actually supplied?

Until recently Kelvin was supplying power to COJ but not into the national grid.

If it is possible to control where your output goes, then you can chose to provide only certain areas.
 

11 hours ago, gallderhen said:

Same with me.

 

When I lived in Randburg, one morning I had freezing-water only (during winter) and thought the thermostat on the geyser died. Got an electrician out who eventually found the problem at the ripple-relay that never switched the geyser back on again. Bypassed it and all was well again.

 

-G-

Did you have a timer switch on the geyser? I had a similar problem some years ago. We called an electrician who found out that the timer switch was between the main supply and the ripple switch. So if they send an "off" signal whilst the timer switch is in the on state, that is obeyed. But if the timer switch is in an off state when they send the "on" signal, it never gets to the ripple switch, so the geyser turns off. He rewired things so that the timer sat between the ripple switch and the geyser - end of probem.

6 minutes ago, Bobster said:

OK... here's a thing that I know is possible but I don't understand how.

In the UK they have one grid, multiple service providers. All houses are supplied by the same grid. Yet a householder can decide what service provider he wants to deal with (for example, a friend of mine chooses to deal with a particular providers who generate only renewable energy).

OK... so do all these service providers just pump into one grid, thus into one stream of electricity, and the householders all draw from that stream? Or is there a more exact way of doing it?  If it's all feeding into one stream, how do they know who you are buying from? Would it not be possible for a provider to charge for more than they actually supplied?

Until recently Kelvin was supplying power to COJ but not into the national grid.

If it is possible to control where your output goes, then you can chose to provide only certain areas.
 

As I understand it you are all contributing to a common pool of power. It will be metered at the consumer, and charged to the service provider. Presumably also if one power generator is a bit short, they can buy from another generator for their customers.

Because it is competitive, everyone will be trying to generate at least cost with the most uptime, and attract the most users for their product. (a stark contrast to the current situation) 

Edited February 4, 20206 yr by DeepBass9