Leshen Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Good day. For those Hubble owners who are keen to know what the AM2 looks like on the inside. BYD cells are laser welded together. See attached picture. PS, please don’t open your batteries for any reason as the warranty will be void. Mier, JaseZA, Energy-Jason and 5 others 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buyeye Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 13s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leshen Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 11 minutes ago, Buyeye said: 13s? Correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leshen Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 Link to video on the laser welding https://youtube.com/shorts/eiI1T15xOYc?feature=share Yellow Measure and Boerseun 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boerseun Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 5 hours ago, Leshen said: Good day. For those Hubble owners who are keen to know what the AM2 looks like on the inside. BYD cells are laser welded together. See attached picture. PS, please don’t open your batteries for any reason as the warranty will be void. Wow that does look very nice and neat Yellow Measure 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leshen Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, Boerseun said: Wow that does look very nice and neat Thank you. That’s the great aspect of dealing with a “local” brand. You get great support and total transparency. Energy-Jason, Yellow Measure, Tariq and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaseZA Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Very interesting, thanks for sharing! So 13S at 51V nominal = 3.92V per cell, 54V Max = 4.15V and 42V cutoff = 3.23V. Interesting seeing a chemistry that isn't LFP but NMC! Nexuss 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buyeye Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 1C discharge rate actually makes sense now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tariq Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Especially if you have a smallish battery pack, I have two Pylontech 2000’s, so am limited to 2400 watts when there is no grid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexuss Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Tariq said: Especially if you have a smallish battery pack, I have two Pylontech 2000’s, so am limited to 2400 watts when there is no grid I think he meant it makes sense as Li-NMC is known to have much higher discharge rates than LiFePo4. Edited June 23, 2021 by Nexuss Tariq 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalahari Meerkat Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 20 hours ago, Nexuss said: Li-NMC is known to have much higher discharge rates than LiFePo4 from https://batteryuniversity.com/ Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt (LiNiMnCoO2) — NMC 3.60V, 3.70V nominal; typical operating range 3.0–4.2V/cell, or higher Specific energy (capacity) 150–220Wh/kg Charge (C-rate) 0.7–1C, charges to 4.20V, some go to 4.30V; 3h charge typical. Charge current above 1C shortens battery life. Discharge (C-rate) 1C; 2C possible on some cells; 2.50V cut-off Cycle life 1000–2000 (related to depth of discharge, temperature) Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) — LFP 3.20, 3.30V nominal; typical operating range 2.5–3.65V/cell Specific energy (capacity) 90–120Wh/kg Charge (C-rate) 1C typical, charges to 3.65V; 3h charge time typical Discharge (C-rate) 1C, 25C on some cells; 40A pulse (2s); 2.50V cut-off (lower that 2V causes damage) Cycle life 2000 and higher (related to depth of discharge, temperature) So, NMC not *much* higher if at all, than LFP, but lower life, which would be something I'd be somewhat worried about... not sure what the suggested lifespan is from Hubble or the guarantee, but 10 year plus life may be not so likely based on the chemistry that appears to be used... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buyeye Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 (edited) I've never actually looked at manufacturers pamphlet for this battery, I have attached it actually says 3000 cycles at 100%dod 1C. And if you would like 6000 cycles you have to use 50% dod and probably 0,5C. This is my personal opinion obviously but it would seem one company wants you to buy another battery from them after 3000 cycles which what battery manufacturers do. They sell batteries. hubble_lithium_am-2_a4_pamphlet_v1.4.pdf Edited June 24, 2021 by Buyeye Incomplete sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalahari Meerkat Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Buyeye said: They sell batteries. I actually was contemplating getting one of the Hubbles to start the battery side off here, but since the cells are NMO, I shall have to re-think what I will be looking at, I really still like the LTO idea, but I need to figure out whether the inverter could manage the voltage range of the LTO's... 20 in series, charge at 2.8V ea, that would be 56V , discharge down to app, 1.9V, that's 38V... not sure the inverter would still be able to function at this low a DC battery voltage... if we make it 22 Cells, that would be 62V app. down to 42V app. time to kick tech support about the range of battery voltages the Sunsynk would be able to live with, I guess, else LiFePO4's would have to do the trick X 16 in series... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leshen Posted June 24, 2021 Author Share Posted June 24, 2021 5 minutes ago, Kalahari Meerkat said: I actually was contemplating getting one of the Hubbles to start the battery side off here, but since the cells are NMO, I shall have to re-think what I will be looking at, I really still like the LTO idea, but I need to figure out whether the inverter could manage the voltage range of the LTO's... 20 in series, charge at 2.8V ea, that would be 56V , discharge down to app, 1.9V, that's 38V... not sure the inverter would still be able to function at this low a DC battery voltage... if we make it 22 Cells, that would be 62V app. down to 42V app. time to kick tech support about the range of battery voltages the Sunsynk would be able to live with, I guess, else LiFePO4's would have to do the trick X 16 in series... What are NMO cells? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalahari Meerkat Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Leshen said: What are NMO cells? NMC, not NMO, sorry, either way, these are the less expensive cells, mostly used by the vehicular industry, but not ideally maximised for long life in stationary setups, like most of us would want energy storage for, for now anyway. I suppose maybe one should wait and see what Aluminium-Ion batteries end up doing life/energy density/cost wise.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leshen Posted June 24, 2021 Author Share Posted June 24, 2021 24 minutes ago, Kalahari Meerkat said: NMC, not NMO, sorry, either way, these are the less expensive cells, mostly used by the vehicular industry, but not ideally maximised for long life in stationary setups, like most of us would want energy storage for, for now anyway. I suppose maybe one should wait and see what Aluminium-Ion batteries end up doing life/energy density/cost wise.... No matter what the chemistry, BYD still leads the development in both NMC and LFP cells and that’s why Hubble chose BYD as their cell manufacturer. Yellow Measure and Energy-Jason 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerUser Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 @LeshenDo you know if it has active balancer inside in addition to the BMS? Do you know the specs and makes for those devices? Also is the temperature sensor going to prevent charging at 0 degrees or less? I think the data sheet only specifies protection at high temperatures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leshen Posted July 17, 2021 Author Share Posted July 17, 2021 24 minutes ago, PowerUser said: @LeshenDo you know if it has active balancer inside in addition to the BMS? Do you know the specs and makes for those devices? Also is the temperature sensor going to prevent charging at 0 degrees or less? I think the data sheet only specifies protection at high temperatures. @HubbleLithium would be the best to pose those questions to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertL Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 Can anyone confirm the warranty provided is for the AM2 as well as the cycles, I checked the store / manufacturer website / data sheet / manual but could not find it, but that just maybe me. I see the data sheet says the 3000 cycles but it says +/- how much is guaranteed . I did send a request to the manufacturer through their website but have not had a response, will post if I receive a response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeddyBear Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 On 2021/07/24 at 6:57 AM, AlbertL said: Can anyone confirm the warranty provided is for the AM2 as well as the cycles, I checked the store / manufacturer website / data sheet / manual but could not find it, but that just maybe me. I see the data sheet says the 3000 cycles but it says +/- how much is guaranteed . I did send a request to the manufacturer through their website but have not had a response, will post if I receive a response. Here are the warranty T&Cs hubble_lithium_am-2_warranty_2021_v4.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertL Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 Thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorp007 Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 I just read this topic and got to it via some other placements. Overall quite shocked that a battery can have so many bad connections and not checked the 1st time. Just not good enough to have to wait for more than a month while Hubble takes their time to repair. Seems like not worth it to support this local outfit. zsde 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Measure Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 On 2021/06/24 at 6:41 PM, Kalahari Meerkat said: NMC, not NMO, sorry, either way, these are the less expensive cells, mostly used by the vehicular industry, but not ideally maximised for long life in stationary setups, like most of us would want energy storage for, for now anyway. I suppose maybe one should wait and see what Aluminium-Ion batteries end up doing life/energy density/cost wise.... Yet NMC is used by many in stationary applications, including Tesla Powerwall which is The Gold Standard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorp007 Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 9 minutes ago, YellowTapemeasure said: Yet NMC is used by many in stationary applications, including Tesla Powerwall which is The Gold Standard? Well for camping LED lights I use some that are 12yrs old. I have a few sets so can change them every 2nd evening with spare sets. These used to only last about 700 recharges in my laptops. But then the laptop needed a lot more current than my LED lights. My favourite torch. Magnet strip at the back and stored against a door frame. Uses ex laptop 18650. Die baie ou toppies sal dit onthou as die 1e TV games remote control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexuss Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, YellowTapemeasure said: Yet NMC is used by many in stationary applications, including Tesla Powerwall which is The Gold Standard? "During the Q&A session, related to the Q4 2021 financial report, Tesla CEO Elon Musk said that he expects a transition of all stationary energy storage (ESS) products to Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) battery chemistry." https://insideevs.com/news/563506/tesla-transition-ess-lfp-batteries/ https://electrek.co/2023/03/30/tesla-rumored-us-lfp-battery-cell-factory-catl/ Edited April 7, 2023 by Nexuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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