Achmat Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Speedster said: Do you have the same option to limit load before the inverter based on SoC? You can limit the export power but not the loads before the inverter directly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig1970 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Hi Achmat, still cant fathom why Sunsynk will not explain how this works. So during load shed if the solar is set to 2kw and aux demand exceeds tbis will it get balance from batt (until SoC li.it reached). Query is, can we use this aux output at night off battery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achmat Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 3 hours ago, Craig1970 said: Hi Achmat, still cant fathom why Sunsynk will not explain how this works. So during load shed if the solar is set to 2kw and aux demand exceeds tbis will it get balance from batt (until SoC li.it reached). Query is, can we use this aux output at night off battery? Hi. Yes. If the loads are met from available pv, any excess up to the limit will go to the aux if the grid is down. You can power the aux loads at night if the grid is down and the SOC is higher than the aux off battery setting. Craig1970 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Topp Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 (edited) On 2021/02/12 at 7:05 AM, Achmat said: I don't have the neutral earth bond relay. Everything I've read indicates that it's not compulsory and only needed if you have a floating neutral. My whole house is on the inverter which I think eliminates some of the need for the earth bond. Hi Achmed My question is, if your whole house is on the inverter and there is no mains during power failure, what bonds the neutral to earth as now neutral is isolated from the earth when the inverter switches over to pv or battery and now you will have a floating neutral. In this case the earth leakage will no longer operate as safety device? As far As my knowledge goes neutrals are connected to earth outside your dwelling. Edited February 13, 2021 by Peter Topp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Mackay Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 52 minutes ago, Peter Topp said: Hi Achmed My question is, if your whole house is on the inverter and there is no mains during power failure, what bonds the neutral to earth as now neutral is isolated from the earth when the inverter switches over to pv or battery and now you will have a floating neutral. In this case the earth leakage will no longer operate as safety device? As far As my knowledge goes neutrals are connected to earth outside your dwelling. Yes the neutral is connected to an earth mat at the substation. In the US they often have the earth at the mid point between live and neutral. The earth leakage should still work even if the earth isn't bonded to the live or neutral. These devices determine the current balance between the two. If there's an inbalance it means some current is flowing to an external circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Topp Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Hi Richard You are correct that the earth leakage works with a imbalance. The imbalance is only good if the earth is tied to neutral before the earth leakage otherwise the neutral is floating and where will the current flow to if neutral is not tied to earth if you touch live and you are at earth potential. I can be wrong however I am almost sure that is the reason the neutral bond before the earth leakage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Topp Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 (edited) Hi Neutral has to be connected to earth at some point before the earth leakage (not before the inverter input) for the earth leakage to protect you. When the Sunsynk inverter switches only to pv or battery, no mains input, the link between earth and neutral is lost and neutral needs to be connected to earth by means of a earth bond relay controlled by the inverter for safety reasons as explained. Current cannot flow to earth as an imbalance to trip the earth leakage if neutral is floating. Edited February 13, 2021 by Peter Topp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Topp Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 (edited) Hi Vassan If you touch live with floating neutral you would not get a shock but your body would float at a potential of 220v ac. The earth leakage would not trip as it has no earth reference . There is no imbalance as If you should touch live the earth as there is no current flow back to neural (via the earth which is the protection and what makes a RCD what is ) which makes the RCD trip. This is why it is sometimes called a Earth Leakage device. It does not need the earth wire as the neural wire is tied to earth when the power wires enter your home if you do not use an inverter. An inverter breaks that link when mains power is lost. Just for interest older RCDs have a earth wire attachment. Without a earth reference (neutral tied to earth) a RCD to me is a useless device other than an expensive circuit breaker. My main question for my way of thinking is you need to have a complete electrical circuit for current to flow and without the earth tie to complete the circuit how would the RCD trip. Have I got completely wrong ??? If so please help me. What is an RCD? An RCD, or residual current device, is a life-saving device which is designed to prevent you from getting a fatal electric shock if you touch something live, such as a bare wire. It can also provide some protection against electrical fires. RCDs offer a level of personal protection that ordinary fuses and circuit-breakers cannot provide. What does an RCD do? An RCD is a sensitive safety device that switches off electricity automatically if there is a fault. An RCD is designed to protect against the risks of electrocution and fire caused by earth faults. For example, if you cut through the cable when mowing the lawn and accidentally touched the exposed live wires or a faulty appliance overheats causing electric current to flow to earth. Edited February 13, 2021 by Peter Topp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Topp Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 (edited) Hi Attached is a link to youtube for a good explanation of how a RCD works. Edited February 13, 2021 by Peter Topp FixAMess and Speedster 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Mackay Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Inverters can have their output floating due to the electrical isolation between the input and the output. (This is often the case with DC power supplies as well) This isn't a bad thing unless the output voltage 'floats' away from earth which can cause a high voltage to ground. I'm sure that the manufacturers won't allow this to happen.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tariq Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 (edited) Not sure why Sunsynk/Deye won’t incorporate the earth neutral bond like Victron, then we won’t be having these discussions all the time and not having the hassle of installing one Edited February 13, 2021 by Tariq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leshen Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 Hi guys. What’s the pros/cons of permanently bonding earth and neutral on the essential output of the inverter? Boerseun 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig1970 Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 On 2021/02/13 at 1:39 PM, Achmat said: Hi. Yes. If the loads are met from available pv, any excess up to the limit will go to the aux if the grid is down. You can power the aux loads at night if the grid is down and the SOC is higher than the aux off battery setting. Hi Achmat, thanks again for all your info. I am planning to move all my NE circuits to Aux so that the load can be managed depending on solar/SoC available. Deducing from your and other comments would you agree with the following summary. I am really dissapointed Sunsynk cannot explain this functionality, which I think is one of the main selling points of this inverter. Failing a propper answer, I suppose the only way is to connect something and see how it behaves under different conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achmat Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Craig1970 said: Hi Achmat, thanks again for all your info. I am planning to move all my NE circuits to Aux so that the load can be managed depending on solar/SoC available. Deducing from your and other comments would you agree with the following summary. I am really dissapointed Sunsynk cannot explain this functionality, which I think is one of the main selling points of this inverter. Failing a propper answer, I suppose the only way is to connect something and see how it behaves under different conditions. That looks right except for the load (UPS) if the grid is available. The 90A pass through value applies to both the Aux and UPS loads. I have my whole house on the Load UPS connection of the inverter and pushed over 9kw. It simply pulled what it needed from the grid. Pic below of pas through in action on the UPS load output. It went higher to 9.5kw. I watched a lot of the US Sol-Ark 8kw YouTube videos. Functions are the same but just targeted for the US market. Either sunsynk copied sol-ark or the other way round. Neither company is prepared to answer any questing regarding a link between the two companies even to direct questions on their forum. Edit N.E will be limited to 8kw. It can only send up to 8kw to loads before the inverter as the power will either come from batteries or solar. And also only if there are no other loads on the aux or UPS connection that require power. Edited February 15, 2021 by Achmat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig1970 Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 20 hours ago, Achmat said: That looks right except for the load (UPS) if the grid is available. The 90A pass through value applies to both the Aux and UPS loads. I have my whole house on the Load UPS connection of the inverter and pushed over 9kw. It simply pulled what it needed from the grid. Pic below of pas through in action on the UPS load output. It went higher to 9.5kw. I watched a lot of the US Sol-Ark 8kw YouTube videos. Functions are the same but just targeted for the US market. Either sunsynk copied sol-ark or the other way round. Neither company is prepared to answer any questing regarding a link between the two companies even to direct questions on their forum. Edit N.E will be limited to 8kw. It can only send up to 8kw to loads before the inverter as the power will either come from batteries or solar. And also only if there are no other loads on the aux or UPS connection that require power. Hi Achmat, your Edit confuses me. If you talking about during load shedding, I was told this NE circuit will not give any power? If Grid available it is limited by max pass through (less any current through UPS+Aux.) If I understand your comment properly you are saying UPS circuit can provide more than the inverter capacity if grid is available? I am getting more and more frustrated that Sunsynk cannot provide conclusive clarity on this topic of maximum capacities if grid available or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedster Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 3 hours ago, Craig1970 said: Hi Achmat, your Edit confuses me. If you talking about during load shedding, I was told this NE circuit will not give any power? If Grid available it is limited by max pass through (less any current through UPS+Aux.) If I understand your comment properly you are saying UPS circuit can provide more than the inverter capacity if grid is available? I am getting more and more frustrated that Sunsynk cannot provide conclusive clarity on this topic of maximum capacities if grid available or not. The max AC passthrough number is pretty clear. 90A for the 8kw. It'll take what is can from PV and battery and makes up the balance from the grid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achmat Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Craig1970 said: Hi Achmat, your Edit confuses me. If you talking about during load shedding, I was told this NE circuit will not give any power? If Grid available it is limited by max pass through (less any current through UPS+Aux.) If I understand your comment properly you are saying UPS circuit can provide more than the inverter capacity if grid is available? I am getting more and more frustrated that Sunsynk cannot provide conclusive clarity on this topic of maximum capacities if grid available or not. There are 3 connections on the inverter. Grid connection. This is the grid input connection but is also an output if the grid is available. If there are loads after the municipal meter but before the inverter, these loads can be supplied by the inverter from either solar or batteries up to a maximum of 8kw Load or UPS connection. This is the primary load connection for what you want to power in the event of grid failure. The loads that can be supplied from either solar or batteries is limited to 8kw. If your loads on this connection exceed 8kw, the inverter will pull the difference from the grid if its available. The maximum pass through from the grid is 90A. As an example, if your loads are 12kw on this connection, the inverter will draw 8kw from solar or batteries if available and the balance of 4kw from the grid. Pass through value is what the inverter will pull from the grid for loads supplied by the inverter that is more than the available DC battery or solar availability. Aux connection. This is a configurable input or output connection. If its used as a secondary output, the same pass through principle is applied. Total pass through of 90A is shared between these two connections. If the grid is down the inverter can still invert up to 16kw for 10 seconds from available DC sources. I do think they assume that the installer or electrician would be aware of what these terms are as they do state pass through limit on the specifications and they would explain these to the homeowner. Edited February 16, 2021 by Achmat Spelling Tracsec, Dani and Frost 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedster Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Question I have about paralleling these bad boys. Inverter 1 has 4kwp coming in from a PV string, while inverter 2 has no PV connected. Does inverter 2 have access to the PV from inverter 1, or does the power have to pass to inverter 2 via the battery (and hence limited to battery discharge constraints)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achmat Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Speedster said: Question I have about paralleling these bad boys. Inverter 1 has 4kwp coming in from a PV string, while inverter 2 has no PV connected. Does inverter 2 have access to the PV from inverter 1, or does the power have to pass to inverter 2 via the battery (and hence limited to battery discharge constraints)? If the inverters are on the same phase then both inverters will be supplying the same load. If the total load on this phase is 10kw. Then one inverter will supply pv from its connected panels and the 6kw difference will be provided by both inverters from the same battery bank. That's my understanding of parallel on the same phase. On a three phase system the inverter can only supply the connected phase from its own solar and the inverter in the second phase will draw from the battery if it does not have any solar connected to it. Edited February 16, 2021 by Achmat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig1970 Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 30 minutes ago, Achmat said: There are 3 connections on the inverter. Grid connection. This is the grid input connection but is also an output if the grid is available. If there are loads after the municipal meter but before the inverter, these loads can be supplied by the inverter from either solar or batteries up to a maximum of 8kw Load or UPS connection. This is the primary load connection for what you want to power in the event of grid failure. The loads that can be supplied from either solar or batteries is limited to 8kw. If your loads on this connection exceed 8kw, the inverter will pull the difference from the grid if its available. The maximum pass through from the grid is 90A. As an example, if your loads are 12kw on this connection, the inverter will draw 8kw from solar or batteries if available and the balance of 4kw from the grid. Pass through value is what the inverter will pull from the grid for loads supplied by the inverter that is more than the available DC battery or solar availability. Aux connection. This is a configurable input or output connection. If its used as a secondary output, the same pass through principle is applied. Total pass through of 90A is shared between these two connections. If the grid is down the inverter can still invert up to 16kw for 10 seconds from available DC sources. I do think they assume that the installer or electrician would be aware of what these terms are as they do state pass through limit on the specifications and they would explain these to the homeowner. Thanks again Achmat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achmat Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, Craig1970 said: Thanks again Achmat. No problem. Figures above are for the 8kw inverter. Can't recall which one your have. I have the 8kw so default to using it in my examples. Craig1970 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig1970 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Summary of findings/testing of Sunsynk 8.8kW using Aux Circuit for load shedding. I put together the attached doc to save future buyers like me having to spend so long in finding out what should be explained in user manual, as well as installer manual. Thanks @Achmat and @Johann1982 for your assistance and patience. Hope this is of assistance. Sunsynk Aux Circuit.pdf Dani and Tracsec 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tariq Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 @Craig1970, brilliant, thank you, I am in the process of hooking up my geyser to AUX, just have to track the neutral for the geyser, the db is confusing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig1970 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 17 minutes ago, Tariq said: @Craig1970, brilliant, thank you, I am in the process of hooking up my geyser to AUX, just have to track the neutral for the geyser, the db is confusing @Tariq, Yes, hunting neutrals can be interesting, glad my info helped you. I will try to wire all my NE loads to this circuit in anticipation of load shedding in winter. Such an amazing system. I really put it through it's paces today, and was super impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achmat Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Craig1970 said: Summary of findings/testing of Sunsynk 8.8kW using Aux Circuit for load shedding. I put together the attached doc to save future buyers like me having to spend so long in finding out what should be explained in user manual, as well as installer manual. Thanks @Achmat and @Johann1982 for your assistance and patience. Hope this is of assistance. Sunsynk Aux Circuit.pdf 214.94 kB · 15 downloads Brilliant. You can also manually turn the smart load on or off by long pressing the AC load icon on the main screen on the inverter. Some spelling mistakes on the Pdf but nothing that would impact reading it. Edited February 28, 2021 by Achmat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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