eskom tariff restructure :(

[Terminal3k]

I want to know if guys have read this article on eskom tariff restructure.... https://mybroadband.co.za/news/energy/431112-south-africans-with-solar-panels-could-pay-1000-more-for-electricity-than-big-power-users.html

I have bought my inverter and battery, getting this installed soon.  Wondering if its still a good idea to go solar (grid tied).  I dont have enough capital to go offgrid.

[Scubadude]

Mybroadband is worse than the Sunday papers.  But let's run with it for a while ... I'm all for the proposal as long as everybody pays and you get a rebate if you dont use peaktime power. I dont see them being able to monitor every household (they'd have to put everbody on a time of use tarriff structure with associated hardware). But let's say somehow they push this through, with a battery it is easy enough to set it up to power your house during the evening and morning peaks, and draw some municipal power overnight. Freewheeling a bit ... you could get a battery and inveter withour solar just to change your demand from peak to offpeak and save that 1000%  

[Terminal3k]

and then if they do a set tariff for households, like a increase the monthly fee to use eskom and lower the KWh tariff... then we all screwed.

[Scubadude]

1 hour ago, Terminal3k said:

and then if they do a set tariff for households, like a increase the monthly fee to use eskom and lower the KWh tariff... then we all screwed.

When that happens I'll add another battery, a couple of panels and wire in my generator.  Bye bye Eskom ...

[Don]

4 hours ago, Terminal3k said:

I want to know if guys have read this article on eskom tariff restructure.... https://mybroadband.co.za/news/energy/431112-south-africans-with-solar-panels-could-pay-1000-more-for-electricity-than-big-power-users.html

It is a joke. People that make statements like that obviously did not have mathematics or economics at school. The problem is Eskom is running expensive diesel-powered open-cycle gas turbines (OCGTs) that were designed to do maintenance with and run 3-4 hours a day in an emergency to generate power. Today these units is form an integral part of the grid and deliver as much as 30% of the power requirements. It is madness. Ask any guy running a generator petrol or diesel general what it is costing him to run a generator. The cost is killing them. 

"At that time, it was around ten times more than buying renewable electricity per kWh." Therefore, they want to blame the guys running on solar for the high demand and make them pay 10 times more for power? It is like pointing a double barrel shotgun at your foot and pulling the trigger and hope it will be fine.  

"Eskom currently relies on OCGTs to supplement its generation during peak hours." - Why? Because they have not done any planning. Koeberg license is expiring in 2024 after 40 years of service and they are supposed to shut down. Do you think they will shut down? No, they will probably extend the license for another 20 years. Another Chernobyl accident waiting to happen. Coal fired generators are under pressure to shut down due to high emission rates. Will they shut them down - No. 

Why do I say they will never shut down these power stations and run them into the ground until they self destruct. It takes 10 years to build a power station. Eskom, can you please show me what you have planned to replace Koeberg and al the coal powered power stations, seeing that these new power stations should be coming online shortly to power SA into the future - I don't expect an answer soon.   

[Scubadude]

1 hour ago, Don said:

Eskom, can you please show me what you have planned to replace Koeberg and al the coal powered power stations, seeing that these new power stations should be coming online shortly to power SA into the future - I don't expect an answer soon.   

Zuma and Putin had that all sorted, down to uranium supply from Oakbay-owned Shiva. Guptagate brought that to a standstill.  And nothing has happened since - sadly our politicians seem to have little motivation if not for their own pockets.  Did someone say Karpowership?

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2021-12-02-karpowerships-r3-3bn-per-year-freebie/

Case in point ...

Edited January 24, 2022 by Scubadude

[MockTurtle]

6 hours ago, Scubadude said:

When that happens I'll add another battery, a couple of panels and wire in my generator.  Bye bye Eskom ...

this is the way.

anybody got experience/research on this with coct? what is the process and cost of removing the meter and of going totally off grid?

[Nitrious]

So I've been busy on a 48v 16s 200ah (10kWh) battery for a while, cost is around R25K. this very same article mentioned above is why I'm pushing up the release timeframe.

The BMS key features are a screen, canbus communication、rs485 communication (master slave comms)、cell balancing、Individual cell over voltage protection、Over/under voltage protection、temperature protection, over charge/discharge protection, over current protection, Short circuit protection etc.

in addition the BMS can support up to 16 units in parallel. 

Li Ion cell options are 4000 cycle,  Cell Charge is 1C/ Discharge is 3C, although specs will state 0.5C on both.

The key features are affordability and universal pylontech compatibility, Support and warranty will be local. 

atm the eta is around 7-10days from order. Please let me know if this is of interest to anybody.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Nitrious

[Bobster.]

I think there is an element of truth to this. Eskom and City Of Johannesburg, where I live, have both been arguing for a split fee for all properties connected to the grid. One part of this will be fixed and will pay for the connection, the other is for actual consumption.

At the moment post-paid residential single phase users in COJ pay about R700 a month in flat fees. Prepaid users pay a higher per kw/h rate, but not flat fees, so if you are careful with using electricity then you can save quite a bit (still, though not as much as you could 5 years ago). The cost to the city of supplying a post and prepaid property is the same, but not everybody is paying equally towards the provision.

[Terminal3k]

8 hours ago, Nitrious said:

So I've been busy on a 48v 16s 200ah (10kWh) battery for a while, cost is around R25K. this very same article mentioned above is why I'm pushing up the release timeframe.

The BMS key features are a screen, canbus communication、rs485 communication (master slave comms)、cell balancing、Individual cell over voltage protection、Over/under voltage protection、temperature protection, over charge/discharge protection, over current protection, Short circuit protection etc.

in addition the BMS can support up to 16 units in parallel. 

Li Ion cell options are 4000 cycle,  Cell Charge is 1C/ Discharge is 3C, although specs will state 0.5C on both.

The key features are affordability and universal pylontech compatibility, Support and warranty will be local. 

atm the eta is around 7-10days from order. Please let me know if this is of interest to anybody.

Compatability with hubble? 

[P1000]

8 minutes ago, Terminal3k said:

Compatability with hubble? 

16s means a definite no. Hubbles are 13s NMC cells.

[Robbo]

8 hours ago, Nitrious said:

The key features are affordability and universal pylontech compatibility

Will the footprint match the pylontechs in terms of mounting?

[Nitrious]

This is where the chassis design is at atm, although some (small) changes may occur. 3x very different designs were considered before going ahead, this one ticks all the boxes, please let me know views or opinions. (New) EV cells are used, with all their inherent performance and environment design features.

There is a 10,000 cycle design in the works, details to be released, advanced Lithium Ion tech being brought to market for the benefit of all. It may be a 27 year projection (1 cycle per day) chemistry calendar aging does play a part, please keep it in mind but exciting all the same.

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Nitrious

[werner.potgieter]

12 hours ago, Nitrious said:

So I've been busy on a 48v 16s 200ah (10kWh) battery for a while, cost is around R25K. this very same article mentioned above is why I'm pushing up the release timeframe.

The BMS key features are a screen, canbus communication、rs485 communication (master slave comms)、cell balancing、Individual cell over voltage protection、Over/under voltage protection、temperature protection, over charge/discharge protection, over current protection, Short circuit protection etc.

in addition the BMS can support up to 16 units in parallel. 

Li Ion cell options are 4000 cycle,  Cell Charge is 1C/ Discharge is 3C, although specs will state 0.5C on both.

The key features are affordability and universal pylontech compatibility, Support and warranty will be local. 

atm the eta is around 7-10days from order. Please let me know if this is of interest to anybody.

sounds very good!

 

[RhysMcW]

regarding this NERSA/ESKOM BS, a large chunk of their argument to want to massively charge those of us with PV seems to go around the unpredictability of sunlight, overcast times etc, and therefore the fluctuating load drawn from the grid as a result...

Maybe I don't understand properly, but how is that really different from someone without PV that switches various devices, kettles or toasters, during the course of a day, even things like the fridge and freezer or geysers or pool pumps kicking in and out.
Surely those create fluctuating loads drawn from the grid???

[LoodPyp]

@Don Sorry to spill the beans, but I don't recall basic numeracy being a requirement for political appointments. Despite socialism being a short-term game which eventually implodes, the short-term winners don't care about the rest.

@RhysMcW I don't like the sound of this plan either. (I read it elsewhere too, so let's not discount it entirely: https://www.citizen.co.za/business/business-news/2993192/grid-tied-solar-consumers-could-be-hit-hard-by-nersa-tariff-review/ )

Politics aside, the technical situation: If larger (e.g. >20kWh/day) users leave the municipal network on sunny days, power planning really goes south on rainy days when previously solar-powered customers join the regular customers in drawing from the network. (As you mentioned, the fluctuations are usually there, but now potentially have higher peaks.) These ad-hoc customers are not such reliable sponsors of those who do not pay their bills, and are further seen as a convenient source of more taxes.

What the suppliers don't consider is that this double taxation just alienates their ad-hoc users even faster, leaving them with a smaller customer base to support the non-paying users. (The implosion commences...)

Edited January 31, 2022 by LoodPyp
Link to article

[Antonio de Sa]

On 2022/01/25 at 8:10 PM, werner.potgieter said:

sounds very good!

 

It looks like SEPLOS BMS I'm I correct?

 

[Bobster.]

On 2022/01/24 at 12:15 PM, Terminal3k said:

I want to know if guys have read this article on eskom tariff restructure.... https://mybroadband.co.za/news/energy/431112-south-africans-with-solar-panels-could-pay-1000-more-for-electricity-than-big-power-users.html

I have bought my inverter and battery, getting this installed soon.  Wondering if its still a good idea to go solar (grid tied).  I dont have enough capital to go offgrid.

Two things. 
1) This is NERSA, not Eskom.

2) I remember some years ago there were headlines in the papers about how municipal rates were going to soar by an order of magnitude. Basically there would be an extra zero at the end of your bill. 

Shortly after that story broke, the DA caucus in the city of Johannesburg said that they would be giving a presentation to concerned residents. I went along.

The DA made several points which might raise some eyebrows, especially given recent announcements by them, but the key point is something that Mike Moriarty said. He said that all policy has to start with a discussion paper. You have an arbitrary starting position, and after a first round of blue sky thinking, a first draft paper, what is called a "green paper"  is prepared. This never presents the final policy to be put before council/government, it is just a starting point and will be revised repeatedly until there is a more reasonable proposition that will hopefully attract sufficient support when the matter is put to the vote. 
 

So he was sure that there was a paper in the ANC think-tank proposing such an increase. He was also sure of three more things: That this was not the final position; that what would be presented would not be nearly as alarming; that the press had got themselves a copy of the green paper and knew what it was, but they were looking for a headline.

So it is possible that somebody at Nersa said, look, we need to examine such-and-such an idea, and we have to start the discussion somewhere, so here's a starting point and we will sling mud at it and see what sticks.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Bobster
Clarity

[Bobster.]

On 2022/01/28 at 11:56 AM, RhysMcW said:

Maybe I don't understand properly, but how is that really different from someone without PV that switches various devices, kettles or toasters, during the course of a day, even things like the fridge and freezer or geysers or pool pumps kicking in and out.
Surely those create fluctuating loads drawn from the grid???

IMO there is a problem when people who are reselling push lots of power onto the grid at a time when nobody can use it. This is known. I don't think the problem is insoluble, but a body like Nersa would be foolish to just wait and see what happens. They would need to start tossing some ideas around to see what should be done and try to project an outcome. 

[Greglsh]

On 2022/01/25 at 8:07 AM, Nitrious said:

So I've been busy on a 48v 16s 200ah (10kWh) battery for a while, cost is around R25K. this very same article mentioned above is why I'm pushing up the release timeframe.

The BMS key features are a screen, canbus communication、rs485 communication (master slave comms)、cell balancing、Individual cell over voltage protection、Over/under voltage protection、temperature protection, over charge/discharge protection, over current protection, Short circuit protection etc.

in addition the BMS can support up to 16 units in parallel. 

Li Ion cell options are 4000 cycle,  Cell Charge is 1C/ Discharge is 3C, although specs will state 0.5C on both.

The key features are affordability and universal pylontech compatibility, Support and warranty will be local. 

atm the eta is around 7-10days from order. Please let me know if this is of interest to anybody.

Hi sounds very good, busy planning (and saving) to get my solar setup, currently I am running micro-inverters (2.7KW). Would be keen to look at this option when the time comes. Where will you advertise them or is only for people from the forum?

[Nitrious]

Its in the final stages of getting everything ready, I'll release details once it's all in place. 

I released info on the forum a bit early because of the possible solar users tariff hike, and to let people know an additional option is becoming available. 

[hoohloc]

On 2022/01/25 at 8:07 AM, Nitrious said:

So I've been busy on a 48v 16s 200ah (10kWh) battery for a while, cost is around R25K. this very same article mentioned above is why I'm pushing up the release timeframe.

The BMS key features are a screen, canbus communication、rs485 communication (master slave comms)、cell balancing、Individual cell over voltage protection、Over/under voltage protection、temperature protection, over charge/discharge protection, over current protection, Short circuit protection etc.

in addition the BMS can support up to 16 units in parallel. 

Li Ion cell options are 4000 cycle,  Cell Charge is 1C/ Discharge is 3C, although specs will state 0.5C on both.

The key features are affordability and universal pylontech compatibility, Support and warranty will be local. 

atm the eta is around 7-10days from order. Please let me know if this is of interest to anybody.

If compatible with Pylontech, count me in. 

[Greglsh]

21 minutes ago, Nitrious said:

Its in the final stages of getting everything ready, I'll release details once it's all in place. 

I released info on the forum a bit early because of the possible solar users tariff hike, and to let people know an additional option is becoming available. 

All good Nitrious, always good to have options and to know of something good coming, keep the updates coming.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Greglsh

[John2]

29 minutes ago, Nitrious said:

Its in the final stages of getting everything ready, I'll release details once it's all in place. 

I released info on the forum a bit early because of the possible solar users tariff hike, and to let people know an additional option is becoming available. 

That will be nice.