Yesterday the solar panels on the Vodacom roof caught on fire. I am wondering what could have happened? We had rain earlier in the morning and a bit of sunshine around the time they caught on fire.

https://www.news24.com/news24/southafrica/news/watch-fire-breaks-out-at-vodacom-headquarters-in-cape-town-20230709

 

Thoughts?

Edited July 10, 20232 yr by HendrikBigChief

bad connections usually - the electrical type and contractor type 🤣

It seems fairly certain that the panels caught fire. We don't know if they set the fire off. They will get the blame.

5 minutes ago, Bobster. said:

It seems fairly certain that the panels caught fire. We don't know if they set the fire off. They will get the blame

And there is going to be a whole blitz of news articles of the dangers of solar panels and how they are installed by unscrupulous un-accredited installers and then followed by a whole string of new regulations.

1 hour ago, WannabeSolarSparky said:

And there is going to be a whole blitz of news articles of the dangers of solar panels and how they are installed by unscrupulous un-accredited installers and then followed by a whole string of new regulations.

And insurers will write exclusions into their policies

1 hour ago, WannabeSolarSparky said:

And there is going to be a whole blitz of news articles of the dangers of solar panels and how they are installed by unscrupulous un-accredited installers and then followed by a whole string of new regulations.

Presumably that installation ticked all of COCT's boxes. But we all know that there are electricians out there who will issue COCs for a building they haven't even set foot in.

11 hours ago, Bobster. said:

It seems fairly certain that the panels caught fire. We don't know if they set the fire off. They will get the blame.

I doubt the panels caught fire initially. It would have been the DC cabling shorting out, glowing red and the insulation bursting into flame. 

I wonder who the installer was and what kickbacks were paid and to whom?

 

 

Terrible. 

It must not be excluded that the failure mode could have been inherent in the product, ie the optics of the panel itself.  

1 hour ago, WestCoastUPS said:

I wonder who the installer was and what kickbacks were paid and to whom?

Yip, same as see 1st comment

Short cuts were most likely taken.
 

 

3 hours ago, WannabeSolarSparky said:

contractor type

 

3 hours ago, WannabeSolarSparky said:

And there is going to be a whole blitz of news articles of the dangers of solar panels and how they are installed by unscrupulous un-accredited installers and then followed by a whole string of new regulations.

Yip a whole string of new regulations. 🤦‍♂️

What's the age of this installation? Were they not installed some time ago already, at least not as part of the latest PV gold rush that's been on since last year?

1 minute ago, GreenFields said:

What's the age of this installation? Were they not installed some time ago already, at least not as part of the latest PV gold rush that's been on since last year?

It was installed a long time ago, March 2013, so 10 years ago.

Edited July 10, 20232 yr by HendrikBigChief

I hope we can find out what caused it instead of just thinking what and who....... 

1 hour ago, HendrikBigChief said:

It was installed a long time ago, March 2013, so 10 years ago.

The poor contractor has already been judged here on the post. shoddy work, short cuts and corrupt and yet he did the installation over 10years ago 🤣

5 minutes ago, hoohloc said:

The poor contractor has already been judged here on the post. shoddy work, short cuts and corrupt and yet he did the installation over 10years ago 🤣

You make a fair point, this then brings up the question of maintenance.

Even my tiny system at home gets a physical checkup every 6 months.
I get onto the roof and check the condition of the wiring and all connections and visually check every single panel too.

That simple check can potentially save me a ton of cash if any of the wiring and or connection did go bad after some time.

wE can speculate all we want about that fire, bottom line is that every solar system owner should take responsibility for keeping their system safe.

The regulations will undoubtedly be intensified and made stricter, which in itself is not a bad thing.

 

If the PV panels have 25 years warranty, then all fittings, brackets and cabling must have at least 25 years warranty as well.

I have seen a couple of DIY solar panel installations on cheap aluminum brackets that will not even last 10 years.

Let this incident be a warning to all people who want to install solar on their roof and make sure that they use professional & certified solar installers

22 hours ago, WannabeSolarSparky said:

And there is going to be a whole blitz of news articles of the dangers of solar panels and how they are installed by unscrupulous un-accredited installers and then followed by a whole string of new regulations.

As predicted: City tightens grip on alternative energy installers

https://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/news/city-tightens-grip-on-alternative-energy-installers-d4593e93-1fc6-46f7-b77a-92f9f686310b

11 hours ago, HendrikBigChief said:

As predicted: City tightens grip on alternative energy installers

https://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/news/city-tightens-grip-on-alternative-energy-installers-d4593e93-1fc6-46f7-b77a-92f9f686310b

Please somebody explain if this statement has any merit  to it whatsoever?

From the article:

"This is to reduce the risk of electrocution of those working on electrical grids and also to speed up the solar system authorisation turnaround time,” said J.P.  Smith."

I would question the competence of the City Electrical department if this statement has any basis in reality.

https://electricalreview.co.uk/2023/06/22/cea-finds-97-of-rooftop-solar-installations-had-major-safety-concerns/
 

The above study completed recently does not include South Africa. If those countries are 97% unsafe, what’s the percentage here?

4 hours ago, WestCoastUPS said:

Please somebody explain if this statement has any merit  to it whatsoever?

From the article:

"This is to reduce the risk of electrocution of those working on electrical grids and also to speed up the solar system authorisation turnaround time,” said J.P.  Smith."

I would question the competence of the City Electrical department if this statement has any basis in reality.

I don't see anything unusual in that statement.

Basically if everyone uses standardised City-approved equipment, and employs approved contractors that are capable of doing up-to-standard work, it will speed up the time for installation and approval of PV systems.

It will also ensure that everyone uses equipment that conforms to NRS 097 standard, such that the inverters will automatically stop exporting power when the grid is off. That's basically a feature of every grid-tied inverter that's on the city's approved list. What you don't want is for someone to be suddenly sending power into the grid with his  inverter or generator while workers are busy doing maintenance on a line that's supposed to be dead.

This is not new, and it's not unique to SA or CT.

12 hours ago, GreenFields said:

I don't see anything unusual in that statement.

Basically if everyone uses standardised City-approved equipment, and employs approved contractors that are capable of doing up-to-standard work, it will speed up the time for installation and approval of PV systems.

It will also ensure that everyone uses equipment that conforms to NRS 097 standard, such that the inverters will automatically stop exporting power when the grid is off. That's basically a feature of every grid-tied inverter that's on the city's approved list. What you don't want is for someone to be suddenly sending power into the grid with his  inverter or generator while workers are busy doing maintenance on a line that's supposed to be dead.

This is not new, and it's not unique to SA or CT.

You totally missed my point.

Do you ever work on an electrical circuit thats presumed zero volts without testing it first?

If there is a risk of electric shock I'm going to check, and check again. Thats the way I was taught.

I would question the training and qualifications of electricity department employees if that is the excuse they are using to get you to register your system.

 

 

2 hours ago, WestCoastUPS said:

You totally missed my point.

Do you ever work on an electrical circuit thats presumed zero volts without testing it first?

If there is a risk of electric shock I'm going to check, and check again. Thats the way I was taught.

I would question the training and qualifications of electricity department employees if that is the excuse they are using to get you to register your system.

 

 

What about you did test for power and it was fine. Then at any time someone with a non NRS097 inverter starts feeding in purely because it is not approved. Electricity remains dangerous. We don't know what other can do at any given time. 

We also know with the current level of competency of artisans they don't always if ever to the required earthing before working on equipment. 

Like its been said here. 10 years down the line and now the installer is blamed. Thats like saying i bought my car 5 years ago never serviced or checked it. now the engine is broken. What now. Is the dealer responsible. please man. I have seen installations done by people that have all the new green cards and so called qualified but people will always take a shortcut to make more money. Some installations look beautiful till you take the covers off, Open all the DB boards then look at it. My 5 year old son can make better connection than that. Dont be fooled by the outside but look on the inside you will find a different outcome. What cables are used. Quality and thickens of cables that is used. How the connections are terminated. Just twisted and shoved half assed in to the socket or is it nicely crimped and inserted without extras hanging out and looking need. have they what i call tighten and tug on the cable to make sure its nice and tight in there.

Here a simple example. Most household inverters aka Sunsynk, axpert, Dye, Solis etc have an mppt controller that can handle a dc voltage of between 90-500volts, yes sunsynk start at 120 ok!! but 99percent of all the installation i come across has a SPD of 600Volts or 1000volts on dc side. Its fits the code of having a SPD well done you pass. Great now what its all in code.

NO NO NO

You need to install a SPD of 500volts preferably 450volts max to protect the Inverter of a surge of electricity. By the time the 600volts spd has grounded the connection the intverter mppt is already blown. See how clever that was. But the SPD will protect me from lightning. ALSO WRONG,

NOTHING can protect you from a direct lightning strike. NOTHING !!!!!! Lets hear the clever comments on how it can. Please reply.

Do i have my greencard- no - have i been doing installation on solar for many many years - yes - Do i do it the right way. I surely stick with code and make sure the quality of my work is in such a way i can pitch up years later and be proud of my work. My clients are protected and so am i. Quality cable and correct thickness is used to make sure no losses can occur or minimal losses for the clever comments. but i dont go use 4mm2 cable on a roof that is running 6000watts in solar running just over 300volts at 16-19amps. But the cable specs say it can handle 40 amps in an open environment maybe for a short time. Go stick you hand on that 4mm2 cable and feel how hot that cable gets. On a nice and sunny day pushing full load the cable heat up become very hot to the touch. Over years the cable will start degrading causing more heat and causing fires.

I can go on forever about the bad workmanship i come across but that's just two simple examples. Any person can do a installation its pissy but doing it correctly is another story. Go get your so called green card guy with a flashy certificates , 50 workers and bullshit overcharging you by a 50-80%, nice flashy bakkie and so on, hes must do good work. Look how well he is doing YES YEEEEEES MUST BE.

Bullshit baffles brains. I guess thats the secret in South Africa. But good workmanship is a sin.

All the code is most of the time dumb.

If you as an electrician walk in and just stick your hand in the db board without checking if there is power you are a loose head. All the stickers are there for when another electrician comes there so they can see the inverter is connected to the db board. Well if you cant recognize that there is an inverter in the same area as the db then you don't deserve to be called an electrician. These things are all common sense. like the one person said here always check if there is power and double check and check again. Then continue with work. As an appy that is what you are taught. especially when it gets to 3 phase. that shit burns....... and kills

Edited July 12, 20232 yr by Henry2501

On 2023/07/10 at 8:52 AM, HendrikBigChief said:

Yesterday the solar panels on the Vodacom roof caught on fire. I am wondering what could have happened? We had rain earlier in the morning and a bit of sunshine around the time they caught on fire.

https://www.news24.com/news24/southafrica/news/watch-fire-breaks-out-at-vodacom-headquarters-in-cape-town-20230709

 

Thoughts?

If I'm not mistaken those panels are on the (extreme) south facing roof.

I'm going to guess UV cable degradation causing a DC short, with zero evidence.

It would be really prudent for the investigation results to be made public here, plenty of other 10yr+ installations out there and simple maintenance/inspection would be money well spent now.

https://www.news24.com/news24/tech-and-trends/news/fire-at-vodacom-headquarters-not-caused-by-solar-panels-20230804