7 hours ago, system32 said:

I'll check with the electrician wrt to the cables - perhaps we switch to a busbar.

I never noticed any heating on the cables.

IIRC, The maximum charge is limited to 6400W (133A at 48V) [PV Array size] and
maximum discharge setting is limited to 7200W (150A at 48V).

@Mier That was my concern, many of the issues were being reported on single or dual battery installations, which should not be as easily affected by cable formats.  Glad to see Hubble are addressing your issue so efficiently.
 

@system32 Your cable config for the batteries is what I had hoped.  Yet rule of thumb should be same length, same diameter throughout (unless Posts - 2 option in diagrams), hence ensuring one avoids the weakest spot, which Mier is alluding to.  (All cable should be larger than min spec)
Looking at your charge/discharge specs (133/150A), the calculations point to a 35mm sqr (2AWG), which may be impacted by your standard Hubble cables, which I received as 25mm.

I have the same issue, looking at 10-11KW (208 - 229A), which equates to 50mm sqr on 3 meters, thus having to replace inter-battery connections with 50mm and primarily why I asked what config you had opted for.  Thanks for sharing.
Bus-bar is the answer, but questionable for a neat installation.

35mm up to 192A
50mm up to 240A 
(3 meter length)

Update - good news.

I returned the batteries to Hubble service center and they fixed them.
The batteries are back and working again.
So far all looks good with the capacity restored to 100Ah each.

Grateful to have local support.

Fantastic

23 minutes ago, system32 said:

Update - good news.

I returned the batteries to Hubble service center and they fixed them.
The batteries are back and working again.
So far all looks good with the capacity restored to 100Ah each.

Grateful to have local support.

Thats great news . What did they say was the problem? It might be worth doing a capacity test and check that the bms is reading true capacity. 

21 minutes ago, Nexuss said:

Thats great news . What did they say was the problem? It might be worth doing a capacity test and check that the bms is reading true capacity. 

There was no explanation given for the issue.
Glad to have the batteries back for load shedding.
I'll check the capacity (kWh) used to take SOC from 80% to 20% over the next few days and report back.

I've checked the discharge kWh vs SOC over the last 2 nights.
I calculate ~19.6kWh capacity which is close to the rated 20kWh.
I'm happy that the capacity has been restored.

Thanks @HubbleLithium for all the help.

Today, I was just touting how Hubble is a good battery and hours later, I'm fretting thinking am I about to eat humble pie? Has anyone (a) received any feedback from hubble either directly or through other forums or; (b) tried to charge the batteries and leave them at 100% SOC for a while (a day or two) or consistently charge them to 100% SOC using the "USER" option instead of the BMS and then see if the cells will balance and capacity will be regained?

I think sincerely, Hubble needs to urgently address this, either through a firmware update or to check their hardware otherwise some of us who are not in SA, will definitely not buy or invest in this battery.

Adding to this one. 

I noticed in the last two weeks or so that my SOC is 10% lower on average per hour than when the system was installed in December. 

Batteries are 2109xxxxxx serial. 

This may or may not be the right way to check but if I have the second battery switched off my SOC shows 65%. If i switch off the first then SOC shows 99%. Both switched on reports 67%. 

Inverter is a Sunsynk 5kw with the Sunsynk data logger  

I have nothing else to test with and Im definitely not buying the RIOT. 

Solar Assistant seems like the next logical step  

 

 

Edited February 10, 20224 yr by maxxis

22 minutes ago, maxxis said:

Adding to this one. 

I noticed in the last two weeks or so that my SOC is 10% lower on average per hour than when the system was installed in December. 

Batteries are 2109xxxxxx serial. 

This may or may not be the right way to check but if I have the second battery switched off my SOC shows 65%. If i switch off the first then SOC shows 99%. Both switched on reports 67%. 

Inverter is a Sunsynk 5kw with the Sunsynk data logger  

I have nothing else to test with and Im definitely not buying the RIOT. 

Solar Assistant seems like the next logical step  

After reading all the issues I’m bashing my head against a wall for insisting that my installer use Hubble  

 

Hubble have a support channel, have you raised this issue of yours with them?

In the past, @HubbleLithium have indicated that they do not do support via social media, but have requested that all support calls go via [email protected] 

Quote

 

Clients that are having any issues with State of Health are encouraged to contact us, either via our support channel or telephonically, so that our technical department can assist in an evaluation of your product. If there is a fault with the battery we are more than happy to swap it out or repair at either our Cape Town, Johannesburg, Port Elizabeth or Durban repair facilities.

Unfortunately we cannot go into a greater depth of response on this platform, as we need to monitor and track technical support conversations in order for us to provide comprehensive support to our clients. 

For all technical support queries please email the Support Department via [email protected] 

Please ensure that the following details are included in your email:

1. Inverter make & model
2. Model & number of connected batteries
3. Are your batteries in Series or Parallel?
4. A brief description of your system issues
5. If possible; images of your power system

 

 

Edited February 9, 20224 yr by YellowTapemeasure

32 minutes ago, YellowTapemeasure said:

Hubble have a support channel, have you raised this issue of yours with them?

In the past, @HubbleLithium have indicated that they do not do support via social media, but have requested that all support calls go via [email protected] 

 

Not raised as yet. Will most likely get the reply to bring the batteries in for testing. Was hoping that someone might be able to provide some pointers on things to check. 

I'm wondering if this chemistry is not working out so well for them.  The failure rate does seem very high.  Perhaps they'll move to LiFePO₄ like other battery makers soon.  I can't imagine this is doing much good for their profit margins. (not to mention reputation in terms of reliability)

Have had mine since Aug last year. Only a single unit.
It still shows it's full capacity as 110Ah after 173 cycles. So no issues here. Overnight discharge averages 30-40% SOC
Could it be that the problem becomes apparent with more than one battery, which could point to a BMS issue not managing the individual cell charges on multiple batteries?

 

I am noticing a trend here on the posts and I find it concerning borders on Product bashing. 

It maybe due to lack of Knowledge or lack of understanding how lithium batteries work.

The reason for this forum is to help people with technical problems and sound technical advice.

It is not a platform to badmouth and product bash that is just childish to be honest.

The amount of complaints that come to light on this product via the forum is but a small percentage of the total amount of these batteries out in the market I would estimate it at about 10 in 10 000 units with that said as far as I know the Manufacturer has thus far assisted every one of their clients that have problems with their batteries so far there is not one person that has not been assisted or where a problem has not been resolved.

They have had some issues with the time it takes to resolve support issues and that is purely due to the fact that they just did not have enough staff on technical support to handle everyone's support requests Secondly due to the fact that their support staff should only know the battery and not the finer technical function of every hybrid inverter in the market a lot of these support requests is how to set the inverter up correctly and has nothing to do with the battery. Surely this is the responsibility of the installer and or person installing the equipment to know how to set everything up correctly and not the responsibility of the battery manufacturer they provide you with all the parameters that need to be set up and that is as far as their responsibility goes. As far as I know they are addressing this problem and is working to improve their technical support and also working to simplify their installation manuals so DIY installers can also understand how to install the equipment correctly.

I have come into contact with a few guys who have had problems with their batteries and found in a lot of cases the configuration of the inverters were done incorrectly or there was some procedures when commissioning new batteries that were not followed correctly and out of those a very small number of people had real problems with the batteries.  

Discussing Current Lithium Chemistry is far above the knowledge level  most of us here on the forum and you will definitely not find Confidential information on the chemistry of current lithium technology on google most of this info is under patent or hidden from competitors and will cause people to come to false conclusions unless that is the intention. 

Reasons why Lithium Batteries should not sit at 100% all day and every day is it will cause Denitrification of the Electrodes some manufacturers Hide this from you by getting the BMS to report that the battery is 100% full yet it is sitting on 90% most of them also limit the battery capacity by 5 or 10 % 

The reason for this is to extend the life of the Lithium Cells considerably this manufacturer has recently added this feature to their batteries to extend the lifespan of the battery for a lot longer and to prevent the risk of denitrification.

With that said if you have a problem with your battery contact the company directly get a support ticket and they will assist you there are not many manufacturers in SA offering that level of support. 

As you all know when you contact power forum store we always do what ever we can to offer you support on product purchased through us we even help people who did not buy product through us with technical assistance and support we have also escalated all of your queries with this manufacturer to resolve the problems you have as fast as possible they have indicated that they see after sales support and quality of support as a priority and are attending to all the issues.

Edited February 10, 20224 yr by Powerforum Store
additional comments

Thank you @Powerforum Store your insights are appreciated.

Another thank you to @Powerforum Store Your insights and advice is truly remarkable and the support from @HubbleLithiumalso deserves and honorable mention. 

 

Im having the same issues again with the batteries again. SOC dropping to quick in the night. 

is there any feedback from Hubble on the issues ?

 

Edited February 14, 20224 yr by Morne SBR

This is really a serious matter. Hubble needs to up there game.

The client paid in full and now must pay someone to take the battery down/put back and send to Hubble for repair, sitting without the main reason for having solar/backup. 

All that is going to happen is that nobody is going to buy these batteries anymore because they aren't reliable.

 

Just my 2 cents!

 

Update time. 

Over the past week I've done a lot of monitoring and calculations to determine my capacity and to track down where the problem lies with my pack. The original problem I experienced was a "loss" of 30% of capacity.

First step was to use Solar Assistant as well as the Sunsynk Data Logger to keep an eye on my voltages. I'm ignoring SOC and the Capacity readouts for the time being and working on voltage specifically as this is the most accurate indicator of state of charge for me. 53.6v = full and 42v = empty.

My batteries are used between 18:00 and 08:00 with an average load of +-350w over 14 hours.

Observations: 

• Both batteries are perfectly balanced at every step of charge and discharge.
• Minimum, Average, Maximum cell voltage reads within 0,01v of each other.
• Temperature on both batteries match 100%

Testing:

• First step was to calculate my average hourly consumption for the time that my batteries are discharged.
• Further calculation to determine the discharge in kWh based on voltage.
• Determine the total discharge in kWh and then converted to voltage.
• Determine the target v by 08:00 to calculate % that my batteries are discharged during the night. 

Process:

• Set Sunsynk inverter to AGM V mode. 
• Ensure that charge and float voltage etc is at 53.6v.
• Ensure that shutdown is at 42v to work on 100% discharge if needed.
• Use battery voltage readouts on Solar-Assistant, Sunsynk dashboard, & Inverter.

Findings:

• By 08:00 this morning I had 47.5v available on the battery.
• This converts to (rounded) 45% charge used.
• Sunsynk Logger confirmed voltage at 47.5v available. 
• Sunsynk Logger confirmed SOC at 55% which when the voltage remaining is converted, is correct.
• Solar Assistant confirmed the voltage at 47.5v available. 
• Solar Assistant confirmed SOC at 0%... ERROR here. 
• Inverter confirmed 47.5v available.
• Charge in kWh for today matches the amount of kWh discharged for last night. 

The only conclusion I can draw from this is that the Sunsynk in Lithium mode reads the incorrect protocol from the Hubble and therefor shuts down when it believes that the SOC = the shutdown SOC set on the Sunsynk. 

Based on the above I can also confirm that my batteries are 100% balanced and in fact at 100% Capacity. 

Solar Assistant I believe is also reading the capacity wrong in my case and most likely misreads the same way that Sunsynk does in Lithium mode. 

I'm happy that my batteries are in fact 100% working as expected and that this whole issue of "capacity loss" is a software issue that can easily be corrected with a firmware update.

Hi all .Just an update on the Hubble issues you have been experiencing I have been in talks with Hubble Senior Engineer and these are some Highlights of our discussion.

1. All firmware updates and remote battery analysis can and will be done via the Cloudlink.

2. Hubble will not request you to send the batteries in for testing all testing can be done remotely if you own a Cloudlink

3. If Hubble finds that your battery is faulty they will arrange a swap out unit this will be implemented in the next few weeks.

4. If you do not own a Cloudlink then you have no choice but to send the battery to Hubble so they can test the battery and ascertain what the problem may be. 

5. Hubble Engineers are currently retraining their support staff to correctly assist clients with regards to support issues.

6. Hubble Engineers are resolving the Communications issues with Sunsynk inverters and redeveloping the software for the Cloudlink to work properly with the Sunsynk range newer models of Sunsynk inverters have different pinout configurations to the older models and the Cloudlink was setup for the older models only they have a software engineer specifically doing just that.

7. We have found that there is a problem with the BMS communication and Sunsynk inverters inadvertently causing the Sunsynk to limit battery capacity by as much as 40 % the interim solution to the problem is by simply using the AGM-V Setting on the Sunsynk for battery settings Empty Voltage 42 and 53.6V for the full voltage Float etc all the same this will unlock the lost capacity of the batteries until Hubble releases a new firmware version to resolve the problem they are aware of it and working on it.

8. Please use the Hubble support system to communicate your queries and problems the forum is not here for Hubble support problems the staff do not monitor the forum for anyone with a complaint or support issue with their products.

This information was relayed to me by the Senior Hubble engineer they are aware of the complaints of support and some problems that have come to light and are committed to resolve every issue and problems again please use the correct channels for your enquiries.  

 

 

8 hours ago, Jacques Ester said:

This is really a serious matter. Hubble needs to up there game.

The client paid in full and now must pay someone to take the battery down/put back and send to Hubble for repair, sitting without the main reason for having solar/backup. 

All that is going to happen is that nobody is going to buy these batteries anymore because they aren't reliable.

 

Just my 2 cents!

 

Hi Jacques. 

I have just had a client where I installed a Hubble AM2 for him and his battery stopped working. I'm going to take it to Hubble tomorrow to see what's wrong. 

I certainly won't charge him for removing the battery and reinstalling a new one. 

Yes it can be annoying for some but it's all part of the business. 

I've got an AM2 recently installed with a 2108x serial number. Solarman Smart is reporting some bizarre statistics for some non-existent battery packs (web UI screenshot below). Could this be caused by the same incompatibility between Sunsynk and Hubble? Or is this issue only related to multiple batteries and Cloudlink?

Firmware on the Sunsynk is a bit old and have posted similar question in the inverters forum here.

30 minutes ago, stevenv said:

I've got an AM2 recently installed with a 2108x serial number. Solarman Smart is reporting some bizarre statistics for some non-existent battery packs (web UI screenshot below). Could this be caused by the same incompatibility between Sunsynk and Hubble? Or is this issue only related to multiple batteries and Cloudlink?

Firmware on the Sunsynk is a bit old and have posted similar question in the inverters forum here.

That crazy battery pack data seems to be a Solarman issue many people have including me. 

@maxxis Awesome, Thank you for the break down.

I was going to type something similar here after our discussions on the other forum. Glad to see its solved the issue.

Once in AGM V it really does unlock a lot more out of the battery. 

@Powerforum Store Amazing. Thank you for liaising with Hubble on this. Their support has been topnotch from my side too. I really cant complain. 

I am sure in the next few months an update will be pushed through and we can use the Lithium setting again. 

Thanks from my side to all who have shared and got involved. 

 

Is this necessary on all hubble/sunksynk setups?

On another note. I see my Libms menu shows SOH and see lots of others that does not? Is the SOH display newer firmware on the battery?

1 hour ago, Donovanvdb said:

Is this necessary on all hubble/sunksynk setups?

On another note. I see my Libms menu shows SOH and see lots of others that does not? Is the SOH display newer firmware on the battery?

Which firmware version are you running? On mine, it showed SOH with older firmware but after an upgrade, it doesn’t anymore. 

Edited February 18, 20224 yr by PowerUser